Wednesday, 17 October 2007
Types of relationships
Acquaintances
These are full of potential relationships. This is how people make selections for more serious relationships - that is the ones that provide the life giving strokes, allow the script to be advanced and so forth. Thus every acquaintance is a possible friend or enemy. The more acquaintances you have the more choices you have. So say hello to everybody. They can be static relationships that can last that way for a long period of time. ‘Waving’ relationships or ‘Hello and goodbye’ relationships, everything is on the surface.
Acquaintances form a mask or shield which the person places between them self and the other. This he calls the ‘persona’. The persona is a way of presenting oneself and is best described by a series of adjectives such as gruff, sweet, innocent, competitive, compassionate, busy, loving, charming and so on. The persona it the AC and is developed by the child’s need to get on in the world. The child decides; “I am OK and will get by in day to day life if I am ....”.
Kids learn how to have a social persona face to cope in life
It is formed from years 6 - 12 when most children first go out on their own and have to deal with people in the outside world who are not first screened by themselves or their parents. In such situations the child quickly discovers that it must develop ways to avoid unwanted entanglements and to promote wanted ones in a world he never made. It is an adaption to the world. It is not Free Child.
Relationships develop
Why do some people remain acquaintances and some do not. Some we move onto games and intimacy with and some we do not. There are main 2 reasons.
1] We may not move on to something more because there is no room to. One’s life is too full and you have to wait until someone dies for a spot to become available.
2] They do not fit for the script. We fall in love or find someone attractive because they fit for our script. As an acquaintance our Little Professor ego state [A1] checks out the other and decides that this person has a very real chance of allowing us to get our unmet needs met and not met at the same time.
Competitive relationships
In some relationships the parties can compete for a particular ego state or position in the relationship.
Competing for the Parent position - This is a power struggle for the powerful position in the relationship. This type of situation can often lead to the game of Uproar and often happens after about the first 2 or 3 years of marriage. The honeymoon is over, they are beginning to realize that what they thought they could ‘train’ the spouse out of or into is not going to happen. So there is a period of disharmony or uproar about who is going to ‘rule the roost’ or who is really going to wear the pants in the relationship. They come to counseling because they are arguing about the big three - children, money or sex. But the real reason is the power struggle for the top dog position, they are establishing the basis of the relationship for the next 20 or 30 years
Competing for the Child position
In this instance both parties are wanting to take the Child position where they are taken care of by the other party. They do not want to do the looking after they want to be looked after.
In this instance you do not tend to get uproar or shouting, rather you have two people who are tending to be passive and doing nothing. or playing helpless, Poor me is a common type of game. The resultant feelings are not likely to be anger (at least not openly), but more likely to be disappointment, frustration, sulking, sadness and depression.
I can't cope so you have to look after me.
Graffiti
23:05 Permalink | Comments (25) | Email this
Comments
Hi Graffiti,
when in Rome and all that.. so I have had a couple of vodka's tonight. So my thinking is slightly off piste - wanted to get my apologies in first! Please ignore if I am being too nosey...
Something I have wondered and if you dont mind me asking, ...as a counsellor with all this relationship dynamics knowedge, do you analyse your own relationships (all types) that you are in, or do you just go with the flow? Must make it hard or ruin it at times?
Just wondered...
K.
(still in Moscow and having a fun time, taking loads of photos which I cant wait to show everyone! And I saw Lenin today! And the Kemlin)
Hi Roses - I AM managing to stay safe and warm (I bought some lovely marino wool longjohns!)
Hi Nick - did you catch my kiss? I caught yours, I think.
Posted by: kahless | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Hi Kahless,
oooh yeh thanks Kahless. National anthem'll never be the same. Pleased you're having a good time in Moscow. Have a vodka for me won't you and take care.
Nick
x
Posted by: Nick | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Tony?
It would seem to me that sometimes the Parent of the pack needs strokes, and sometimes to get that they play 'child'. Is that true?
When it's that's situation, it isn't a struggle to be PA or C in the group, but just a need to be comforted/stroked? Isn't that just human interaction?
The picture that has the caption... "I can't cope so you have to look after me." That's also a case of weariness isn't it? When some one is so tired they're asking for rest/comfort/help? You might find you'll need some comfort in this group family Tony. Hope you get some strokes.
It's not so easy to be an acquaintance, i'm realy bad at remembering names so i'm always asking people what their names are even though we've known each other for ages. They kind of look shocked, i don't understand why. I don't expect others to remember my name - you know, like there's only one of me and millions of other humans in the world. Like as if they'll remember my name out of all of that! I say it every time so they remember - well when ever i think they might need help in remembering. This relational stuff is so weird.
Thats just life i guess?
So you're the leader of the family are you? That's quite a tough job you know?
Kahless! You like vodka? Have one for me too. I don't like it but i know you'll enjoy it. Woolen underwear, that's got to itch *giggles* Cheers mate...
Posted by: Roses | Thursday, 18 October 2007
By the way Tony - PS. You said...
"As an acquaintance our Little Professor ego state [A1] checks out the other and decides that this person has a very real chance of allowing us to get our unmet needs met and not met at the same time. "
Do you think your above statement is relavent in cyber space relationships?
Posted by: Roses | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Good blog Graffiti, perhaps thats how people limit their relations and intimacy. They get the types of relations they are safe with even if they are not happy with them.
I must admit to surrendering (ego) to different kinds of relationships/aquaintances at the moment. Maybe I will change my blog name to Kenoathy? Just to implement a personaoratic shift.
kenoathy
Posted by: kenoath | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Hello Kenoathy,
I think surrending to relationships is an interesting thing to do.
As I am sure you know Kenoath people have many ways by which to avoid intimacy in a relationship
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Nick & Kahless,
I see now that England is reliant on Isreal to get them further in the European cup (I think it is called).
Information on relationships can be used for good or evil Kahless, weather you are a counsellor or not. So it is a personal matter on what the counsellor's life script is and they will use information (on relationships or otherwise) to further that script.
When socializing my head is most often not in work mode although sometimes I do hear people say things and will think about it in a work like way.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Roses,
People will live out their life scripts in relationship in cyber space, with your neighbour, with hubby or the missus, with your children, and so on endlessly.
I think all good relationships involve looking after each other, its just when it gets unbalanced and one person does all the looking after and the other person does all the getting looked after
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Tony...
That 'script' thing - it's a tad tripy you know. I don't know if i want to agree to it all. I find my self getting angry and more frustrated at the way that everything is compartmentalized in this Psych stuff. It's like we're all beads and we get put in our little boxes made of picky purky all lined up in a row. I don't like it - not at all - when we all get put in boxes little boxes all the same...
It doesn't have to be as you say you know? It might be different. (It might not be) but it might. How do you KNOW that's what happens. How do you know everyone on the planet will live out their scripts with everyone around them? Just because someone came up with a theory? Just because some one said and it sounded pretty good at the time?
What if they were on something and off their face at the time?
I'm serious Tony. When was the last time you did something for the first time? When was the last time you didn't listen to the books and all the theories (which is actually someone elses perspective/thoughts on something) and noticed things and thought on then yourself?
If you had nothing in your head that kept reminding you of the things you think you believe, I wonder what you'd really believe? Do you ever wonder that Tony? I do...
Posted by: Roses | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Hello Roses,
yes I do wonder that
and maybe we aren't all in a nice row as you say
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 18 October 2007
G'day Roses,
No Vodka isnt my preferred drink but I thought I should have some alcohol at least one night on holiday. And wool is itchy in the warm, but not in the cold!
Hi Tony,
Yes, it appears I won't be holidaying in Austria and Switzerland next summer, but hey, the Russians deserved this victory.
Thanks for answering my question.
So someone works out their script and they decide they dont want to follow it no more and make a big effort to do just that, can they end up inventing another one for themselves (that they may not be aware of and maybe as equally damaging?)
Also on the theme of this post, if someone in a relationship realises the dynamics of what is going on and decides to stop competing in the relationship, does that relationship not then become doomed unless the other person realises it too and both parties work together on a new relationship? Then cant all relationships become doomed n this manner then?
Therefore is it just not best to not be in relationhips full stop? But then we are human beings who (unfortunately) need relationships.
ps Flying back home tomorrow. I bought a really cool naval cap today; the russians sure do like caps with enormous peaks.
pps I hope you guys are supporting England to win the Rugby on saturday
:-)
Posted by: kahless | Thursday, 18 October 2007
That is what my previous post about the relational was saying at least in part Kahless.
When is a relationship both people are transformed or changed. Any action that I take will always impact on the other and force them to make some kind of change as well. This is seen as an ongoing process and cannot be avoided.
Of course it is a matter of degree. If one makes a significant change to their script then that will require the other party to alter in some way. If they do not then yes the relationship can meet its end. Most often that does not happen but as we all know it certainly can.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 18 October 2007
There is that saying about you cant change others, only yourself. But I guess this flies in the face of that...?
I wonder what change would ensue if I stopped playing the role that I do in the games that my family play. I am 39, i wonder what would happen if I stopped doing everything that I was told to do?
Probably ww3!
Someone once said to me, that it is always important to understand the impact of something before you did it.
Aisde from that with my partner, I think cyber-relationships are the best!
Posted by: kahless | Thursday, 18 October 2007
I don't think one can ever really alter their script or invent another one. Sorry Roses. It is however possible to opperate quite differently within a script if one decides to do the work involved with that.
Snot fair installing unrealistic goals/hopes for change.
kennyoathy
Posted by: kenoath | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Yes I do Graffiti, sometimes it seems like a full time- unconscious job for some; to avoid intimacy that is.
If one "surrenders", somthing else must fade away eventually.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Dont get your last line Ken; what do you mean?
Posted by: kahless | Thursday, 18 October 2007
hmm, adherence to something else fades away Kahless; could be anger, scriptiness, incongruent persona, coping methods etc within the realm of what Graffiti is saying about aqaintences/relations.
How does one surrender you might ask as well? What's involved and where do you fuckin get it?
iNtHe tWiLiGHt zONe perhaps
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Yes Kahless,
You state
There is that saying about you cant change others, only yourself. But I guess this flies in the face of that...?
This is at the cutting edge of current psychological thinking. It is erroneous to think of the individual. One must always think in terms of a two person psychology. To talk about the individual no longer makes any sense.
The smallest unit you can have is two people and their relationship. So it is not a matter of changing others it is a matter of seeing how two people interact and the dynamics or interactions between them. Just like once we used to look at how the single person's three ego states used to relate and interact now it is the six ego states of two people.
Its not so much a matter of changing someone else as being in the relational and being part of a dynamic system of six ego states that are constantly changing in relational to each other.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 18 October 2007
Thanks Ken and Graffiti.
Wow. I am full of questions now!
Ken - surrender, a simple word but a tough thing to do. I guess it comes back to taking risks that was discussed some posts back. Some risks are bigger than others though
:-) Cyber-space is a good place to experiment though.
Tony - six ego states are a whole lot more interesting than just three. I am picturing a juggler now with six coloured balls. If the smallest unit is 2 persons, where does the person who is very introvert and likes spending time in their own mind fit in?
And if we are putting cyber-relationships into the bag, how are we all interacting folks... Graffiti, Tony, Ken, Roses, Madeleine, Nick, Lynn, QofD, (hope I havent missed anyone) and me? If we have no sound or visual contact, we have to make more assumptions about what ego state each of us are communicating from / to. More likely to get it wrong I guess. Make big assumptions about eachother? Or am I issing trick. Oh this is fun. I could ramble on all night, but alas I have some packing to do and alas, then I will be off-line for circa 24 hours whilst we fly home. When I get home I will reread all the posts and comments in case I missed anything.
Kah.
Posted by: kahless | Friday, 19 October 2007
Some people can't always interact and end up having to just watch from time to time. You know what I would like to watch over the weekend? I would like to watch myself opening a photo attachment of a fabulous friend wearing a naval cap. My guess is, it looks right smart.
Posted by: Lynn | Friday, 19 October 2007
So dearest Kenny?
You said - "I don't think one can ever really alter their script or invent another one. Sorry Roses. It is however possible to operate quite differently within a script if one decides to do the work involved with that."
The script being the person in their own fairy tale/story?
So then, clients are helped only within the perameters of what they or their theorapist believes their script is? There's not a lot of hope in that. In essence then, they are imprisoned for life within a story they've begun to build from a very young age? And, there's no way out of it??
That's just too depressing to even think about Kenny...
Posted by: Roses | Friday, 19 October 2007
Really Kenny?
There's no way out?
What if the script thing isn't real? What if it's all just a theory - some one elses thought on the subject?
No way out? Really?? People write books on lots of things, doesn't make it real.
Intensly concerned Roses
Posted by: Roses | Friday, 19 October 2007
I am not saying there is no way out Roses however you are assuming that it seems. sorry for getting you mixed up with kah, Roses I was replying to her statement above.
Its a bit of a stretch to think someone can erradicate or dramatically change fundemental aspects of their personality. I am not saying that one must stay unwell though Roses.
kenny
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 19 October 2007
Hi Kenny,
Maybe what you're saying Ken is that it's easier to change your name (or your underwear) than your personality. Then again, I think small changes made as a therapy can make a huge difference, especially when a person is only wanting to finetune things.
Best wishes,
Nick
Posted by: Nick | Friday, 19 October 2007
Maybe I am saying that Nick. Yes I think you are right about small changes. Perhaps therapy is like a car tune up or home reno? depending on the state of ones car and engine, obviously panel beating takes longer as does a gear box change. Its still the same car though. Come to think about it I have seen a mini cooper with a rolls royce front end.
happy motoring
kenoathy
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 19 October 2007
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