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Thursday, 25 October 2007
Near Death Experience
Rob van Tol,
(See my blogs I like list, to visit him) talks about death denial and that confronting death is a key to living a full, authentic and happy life. Well any counsellor will tell you that there is a lot of truth to these statements.
What seems to happen most times is that when a person has a NDE (Near death experience) or there is a NDE of a close loved one they will do a reassessment of their goals in life. Rob shows a good example of one of these. However after time the impact of the NDE wears off and they again get lost in the trivialities of life. They start to fritter their life away again like ruminate about how they can getting a bigger and better car or being concerned about what the neighbours think and so forth.
Be different even if the neighbours disapprove?
I have found that one of the advantages of being a counsellor is that clients can sometimes provide you with that situation of the NDE or some significant life crisis. Often you are counselling people who have had a very bad things happen to them in their life and thus they are confronted with their own mortality or their life being considerably altered. This of course can effect the counsellor personally and they can then do a ressessment them self as well.
I have always wanted to do it
I am reminded of a client who I counselled for some time. A man in his early twenties. It was one of those situations where the client and therapist just clicked and we developed a very good rapport over about a year. He had done some very bad things and was on some very serious charges and facing a long stretch of prison time. As it turned out he did not go to prison by the skin of his teeth.
Sometimes clients are forced to do this with their lives. How does the counsellor respond to that and do they also re-evaluate their own life?
I saw him for the 6 months leading up to the trial and for the 6 months after and he used that experience for a similar revaluation of his life. It also effected me personally and I even attended the courts on the day the verdict was given. So I was in a position of seeing someone who I knew well and this again showed me the need to keep my priorities right and not get lost in the trivialities of life.
Maybe this is an advantage of being a counsellor and maybe why I live my life by the totem:
“When was the last time you did something for the first time”.
Go on!!
Do it!!
Take that leap of faith into the unknown.
If you get hurt, such is life.
There is one other thing I am going to do before I die and that is organise a trial wake for myself and attend it. People always say such good things from the heart at a person’s wake. They give such really good stokes to the deceased. Many times I have wished the deceased was there to hear them. People never seem to say such things when the person is alive. Well I am going to organise a wake for myself, invite all my best friends and enjoy the party.
Graffiti
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Comments
After 46 years of teaching, I decided to try the ultimate "plunge," retirement. This is like "free falling" into uncharted territory because your past life comes charging into your thoughts, and you wonder about all that your ego had you do and think to keep a sense of "worth" going.
"Rebirth" is prayed for." In the meantime, you (I) seem to be counting on invisible layers of promise to keep me afloat.
Best wishes to all who share this human skin, psychological as well as physiologically.
Posted by: Gerald Baxter | Friday, 26 October 2007
First of all, I love the first photo. Secondly, I love the sentiment expressed in this post. Recently my husband's best friend (who is a multi-millionaire who inherited the family business) completed a brand new house in an area of our state that is simply breathtaking.
Since then both my husband and I have been struggling with the "why do some people get things handed to them when we've had to struggle so hard for the smallest things?"
But really? We have fabulous life with two wonderful children who are both healthy and happy. We have so much to be grateful for, not the least of which is the opportunity to pursue those things that truly make us happy instead of just trying to keep up with our peers materially.
So I have to say thanks so much for writing posts like these. They really do help many of us remember that life is more about the richness of our experiences than our bank accounts. :)
Posted by: QofD | Friday, 26 October 2007
P.S. - I love the idea about having a wake for yourself. That has to be one of the more unique things I have heard in recent memory, please post and let us know how that turns out!
Posted by: QofD | Friday, 26 October 2007
That does seem to be an enjoyable narcissistic thing to do Graffiti. To attend ones own wake that is. Its my death and I wont miss out on my party in parting. Perhaps you can attend the party wearing a white sheet pretending to be the spirit of graffiti and while others say "good ol' boy" things about you, you can utter your departing comments to them. The things that you never got to say to them in the flesh perhaps? Makes for a good sit-com dont you think?
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 26 October 2007
Tony?
I'm giggling. Will you be in a coffin while the wake happens?
Off to Canberra now so have a great weekend. It's a great idea though - the wake thing that is...
Cheers...
Posted by: Roses | Friday, 26 October 2007
NDE, its a difficult subject. though I have to admit I'd love to be at my own funeral...its something to do with being Narcassistic
Posted by: ShadowFalcon | Friday, 26 October 2007
Hello Gerald,
Sounds like life is reaching one of those points where you can do that leap of faith and see where you land.
Rebirth is a good metaphor and I hope it works out well for you
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 26 October 2007
Hi QofD,
Glad you like the idea of a living wake.
With all those people saying such nice things about you, I certainly would not want to miss that!!!
I have a couple of old school friends who are going to hit the jackpot when their parents finally die, which is probably not all that far away. They will then have a lot more than I in material possessions!
Such is life
and really I wish them well
But I undersatnd what you are saying
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 26 October 2007
So is my narcissism showing Kenoath?
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Friday, 26 October 2007
Don't get into any mischief in Canberra Roses.
Now there is an impossibility!!!!
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 26 October 2007
Hello Shadowfalcon
NDEs?
I have had a couple in my life and yes they can be difficult things as you say.
Thanks for dropping by. I have added you to my list
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 26 October 2007
If it was Graffiti I wasn't trying to point that out, just that its a perfect way to celebrate the life of oneself. Nothing wrong with narcissism in my book. If I get an invite to your wake while you are there too I will feel very priveleged and probably laugh my arse off. Not with disrespect either.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 26 October 2007
Graffiti,
I know that you are more aware of this one that me, but I didn’t want it to go without note that the “trivialities of life” is very easy to dismiss in conversation but in RL can be effing real and in your face.
But maybe if NDE is so enlightening, perhaps we should all play a game of Russian Roulette? Help us get our priorities straight (except for the loser of course, but they won’t be in a position to care.) We could even organise a cyber Russian roulette game don’t you think? That would be fun; what would happen I wonder? Who would play?
I think the idea of a wake is cool. But do you think the attendees would be uninhibited to pretend it was for real.
What would be the impact on them I wonder?
What would be the impact on you I wonder?
I don’t think it would be straightforward. Can’t see everyone coming out of it without some issues. But then again, I don’t know you and I don’t know your friends.
Cheers
Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 27 October 2007
Hi Tony,
I like the recent cultural change of having a one minute applause instead of the traditional one minute silence. In the UK they've started doing it at footy matches and it seems in keeping with the person the crowd are remembering.
I was reading a book of ancient wisdom ( as you do) earlier today and stumbled upon this quote by Thich Nhat Hanh
" Now I see that if one doesn't know how to die, one can
hardly know how to live."
Best wishes,
Dick
Posted by: Dick | Saturday, 27 October 2007
Hello everyone,
I watched a drama-documentary tonight called 'The Relief of Belsen.'
One of the survivors, a jewish doctor who ended up helping bring back to health other survivors said (and I havent the exact words but I wrote some of them down and it had historic footage)
we had no ecstacy; no joy at liberation; no place to go; no-one to hug.
We were liberated from death
We were liberated from the fear of death
But not from the fear of life.
My point - and I realise my thinking is rather misaligned at the moment so excuse me if I am going onto a track that seems to be not the same track that everyone else is on -
But I read into the thread (me included previously) a glorification of the gift that a NDE can give??? Or a romantic view of understanding death to live???
Well I am thinking that is not true. the Jews, criminals. gypsies, homosexuals, communists, disabled,....., persecuted by the Nazi's.
Did they so easily find life after the camps and NDE?
And those in the world in a similar position today? Tortured, slaughtered, living in inhumane conditions.
I wonder what they would make of our comments?
I hope I havent offended by my comment, but even more so I hope people understand what I am saying.
Kahless.
Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I understand what you are saying, Kahless. I grew up under the constant threat of death. Becoming an adult was no great liberation. I relate to your last comment because all I came away with was a fear of living. When I am really 'living', like the last couple of days (which is why I haven't been online much), there is no joy, no love, no mystery. There is just an ability to shuffle one foot in front of the other, appear 'normal' and do the normal things. I don't know if anyone will understand this, but it doesn't bother me that things have died off inside. I don't even feel cheated. It's just a relief to be 'normal' again. Now I can do things. It doesn't matter that I can't enjoy them. I couldn't enjoy them before, as I was unable to do them to start with. Now at least I can DO them. At least I have the intellectual knowledge of the IDEA of enjoyment, even though I don't actually HAVE the enjoyment, if you know what I mean. There is a certain satisfaction in that that I just can't define, but perhaps others might understand.
Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 27 October 2007
And I think I understand what you are saying Lynn, my friend.
Maybe therein lies a differential, between a NDE and living for a sustained period of time, with the trauma of having to fight for survival?
Fear of living. Yes I relate. I know that. And, for me it becomes a spiral lately that I am useless in that. And I read across the internet about loads of catch phrases that I feel imply, get off your butt and live life. I even read the other day that apparently people who feel depressed just need to be loved. Don’t buy into that. If only that I think the love of Mrs Kahless, my dogs and my friend would see me through.
You know what, if I could get off my butt and take life by the horns I would. (I know that such a spirited person as yourself would do too if able)
So I feel that I am the failure even more. And I can hear people criticizing me now for assuming I am taking the attitude ‘oh woe is me.’ I am not. I just don’t know how to do enjoyment.
Appear normal seems to be good, because it appeases everyone around and satisfies responsibility. Doing things to please others! :-) It also gives function.
Doing things that you couldn’t do before must give some sort of relief? Even though there is no joy for you. It is a start.
Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 27 October 2007
The gift and the glorification of the NDE. I like that Kahless.
"Fear of living". I suppose we are all different. I don't have a fear of living but I put fear into my living, with new things and so forth. If I had a life without fear then I think I would stop living.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I have not heard of that before Dick,
The one minute applause instead of one minute silence. It would seem to be a better way of doing it.
I wrote about such things a few posts back when I talked about the self centered nature of bereavement and honouring the dead. We are not hounring the dead in the sense that they will feel hounoured. We are making ourselves feel better about ourselves by doing such a thing. So in this sense we are using the dead to glorify ourselves.
This just adds another dimension to the living wake. When I have my living wake people will really be able to 'give their respects' to me when I am dead because I will be there feeling the 'respects'. So in that case the "bereavement" in the liviing wake is not a purely narcissistic act.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I wouldn't call it a start exactly. It is just something entirely different, Kahless. And yes, it is a relief. I seem to have been relieved of a lot of things somewhat suddenly. I have felt this trying to happen before, and I feared it then. I needn't have. I realize now, that it is exactly this place that I have been missing as I used to live here before. Maybe I am my 'old self' at long last and am once again beyond the reach of certain disruptions. The lack of enjoyment is not enough to make this a bad thing.
Interesting, Tony, that you mentioned that you would have stopped living if you lived without fear. I guess people are all different as you say. I don't feel fear now, but now I may 'live'. I know it is a different kind of living than what you mean, but that is okay. I've never had what you are talking about and I don't think I'm capable of having it. Perhaps some people do not have that capacity. All different.
Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I think the idea of life without fear is an oxymoron, it just doesn't happen in this life. Fear is one primal instinct that primimitive man survives on. It isn't any different in the 21st century either.
I remember being in some pretty scary-dangerous situations 30 years ago and even more recently a decade ago when anxiety attacks created the fear I needed for survival. They are both different kinds of fear of which without I may have surley died. We create the fear we need at any on time for survival purposes, even boredom/stagnation in life is a constant threat or fear and promotes surviving.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I find an inherent flaw in the meditative approaches to life and psychology Kenoath.
Those approaches that see balance and serenity as the goals have a basic flaw in them.
People are constantly seeking disequilibrium, indeed one could call such a thing as game playing and going onto your racket, and we all do that every day we are alive.
If it is so bad why is every one doing it.
And if you actually achieved balance and equilibirum for a long period of time what would happen? Stagnation and probably very little change. To me that is the key - things like fear and so forth precipitate change.
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 27 October 2007
Yes, even some meditative religious ideals about anger management leave me with anxiety Graffiti.
Re your wake, it seems that unless you were limited in days left in life because of illness, the wake would seem like a stroking exersize and group therapy-like. In that instance my participation might have a reflective element of celebration. However, otherwise with a well cooked haggis and bagpipe entry, including several whisky's I think my sides may split with joy and merryment. What a way to go!
cheers
Kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I would see the living wake as having two main functions Kenoath.
People say such nice things at them about the deceased, and the deceased is not there to hear them. Well lets create a situation where the person can hear them as that would be good for all concerned.
Secondly it could allow the bereaved to be more true to themselves at the actual funeral and wake. That is, "We are not at the funeral or wake for the deceased, but we are here for ourselves and our own feelings (and there is nothing wrong with that)".
If they have already 'paid their respects' when the person was alive at the living wake, then it sort of frees them up to accpeted the self centered nature of the funeral for the bereaved.
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 27 October 2007
I'll have you know Mr Graffiti sir that - Anything is possible! And i wasn't driving so there weren't so many crashes yesterday or today.
It was lovely thought and it stormed and rained while we were in shopping. Civic is a fun shopping center! It's way bigger than down here.
You didn't answer my question, will you be checking us out at your wake instead of us checking you out at your viewing, and will you be there coffining out? You could be a "Tony in a box" and scare us to bits when you jump out - or not...
Just a thought...
Posted by: Roses | Saturday, 27 October 2007
No Roses
I am not going to be lying in a box at my wake,
I will be up and about having a load of fun and taking in all the good positive strokes.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 27 October 2007
There may not be so many Tony, cause you'll still be around.
It's not easy for some people to say nice things about a person to a crowd when the departed are up the back (or down the front) thinking about heckling those doing the speaking. Us Aussies aren't really good at being lovey dovey to peoples faces. But there'll definately be a party! I think you can be sure of that!
Roses
Posted by: Roses | Saturday, 27 October 2007
We will have to see Roses
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 27 October 2007
Thanks for the tag Tony. What a lovely discussion.
PS: Looking sharp in that new photo!
Posted by: robvantol | Tuesday, 30 October 2007