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Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Assessing winner, loser and non-winner
Sometimes when I am counselling and with a new client, I obviously sit and listen to them talk about their life. I then in my own head will ask a question.
“If this person was 6, 7 or 8 years old what would they be doing”?. How would they be and what would they be doing.
If they were at school in the playground would they be organising everyone, trying to be the best, standing quietly on the sidelines, mucking around, would they be with the in crowd or the ‘dorks’, would they be getting wedgies or giving wedgies, would they sit at the front of the class or the back of the class and so forth.
What would they be like if they were at home. I don’t mean in their original home. If they lived in sort of an average home with a mother and a father and some siblings how would they fit into that system. Would they be competing with their siblings, or co-operating, or rescuing a younger brother, would they be trying to get mothers and father attention or trying to get mother and father to argue about him and so forth.
If I can find an answer to these questions then I know a lot about how this person operates in adult life with out all the ‘noise’ that is usually used to hide it. I have managed to be able to see this adult with their persona stripped away and thus I have a much better understanding of what are their covert goals in life that they are probably even unaware of. I will much better be able to assess if they are a winner, loser or non-winner.
So I might try and run this one up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it.
When you were at school were you one of the IN crowd?.
Graffiti
13:00 Permalink | Comments (25) | Email this
Comments
I am at work now but I can't wait to come back and answer this one; I am at home this pm so see you in a few hours!
Cool question!
Posted by: kahless | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Now Kahless,
Does your boss know you are blogging at work!!!
Just joking and see you soon
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Tony,
Yes.
roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Well don't be so verbose Roses
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Here is my salute` to your flagpole Graffiti
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/2/29/BennyHill.jpg
Posted by: kenoath | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Thanks Kenoath,
A salute from Mr B. Hill makes my day
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
No, Tony.
Posted by: Madeleine | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
I have a blackberry Tony so I can slyly surf; besides there is also no-one else around at 7am AND my boss quit last week!
I can see everyone else is being rather coy with there one word answers - spoilsports! And I can't wait for your contribution on your childhood either Tony. Were you IN?
Whas I in the IN crowd? No. I was my own person - not disliked but didn't tend to do popular things. I was a right tom-boy. I remember quite clearly a girl at junior school who was being bullied because she was from the local council estate. Her name was Dorethy Gray (wow, cant believe I remember her name.) I decided one day that I would intervene; I remember stepping in front of her and saying "anyone messes with her, then they mess with me"
lol!
The bullying stopped. Didn't endear me to the in crowd but I didnt start hanging round with her because I thought she was odd.
In senior school I got sent to coventry because I intervened and stopped another bullying incident. So wasnt popular! Incredibly the pupils were bullying the teacher!
Posted by: kahless | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
So what does that makes me, a loser!
:-)
Posted by: kahless | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Interesting story Kahless,
Its funny how everyone has a story, then again I suppose everyone was a teenager at one point so its not all that strange that they have a story.
I think with boys there is less of the exclusion - inclusion games that girls can play, but there is still a hierarchy. Socially I did quite well in my teens so I suppose I was in with a crowd who did a lot of socializing and in one sense that could have been the IN crowd.
I was not an outsider in that way and not one of those kids who really struggle socially. However I have always had the ability to relate to a wide variety of people, and I think more so than average in that way. And I still do.
So I also did relate with those who were in the OUT crowd and thought nothing of it. There was never any pressure put on me to not hang out with the geeks as they are unfortunately referred to at times. Although most of that would happen out of school as my mother sometimes had some strange friends who might have a son about the same age as me.
I certainly did not see myself as being above them although I did know how some of them did struggle quite a bit. Even to this day I have a very diverse group of contacts or friends. I just seem to take people as they are and as I have said before sometimes I worry that I am not judgmental enough. Maybe my job has contributed to that.
I met some people when I worked in a prison who had done some very bad things and I just made no judgment of them. I would listen to other staff make judgments about them and then it would kind of hit me as I would think, "why didn't I think of that". I just didn't occur to me to make such judgments.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Interesting, thanks Tony.
Must say at school I was my own girl. Socialising has never been important to me, however maybe being socially acceptable is another thing. I want very much to be liked, just dont need the social contact.
I guess judgements is a whole other topic. I used to think eing non-judgemental was the cool thing to be, but don't you think there are times where it is appropriate to be outraged and judgemental?
Posted by: kahless | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Kahless,
How can they show liking if there is no social contact?
Isn't that how they show it?
Well in prison I saw others being outraged and when they were it seemed appropriate, but it just did not even occur to me to be outraged in the first place. I need to learn how to do that I think.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
I guess it is again down to definitions!!
Like I go about my work doing a good job, I interact with people in meetings and have a laugh and a joke. I know I am liked and respected.
Yet I rarely have lunch with people I work with (I like to do my own thing and eat on my own) and I dont have any out of work contact and usually skip the christmas party. Or if I feel obliged pop my head in for the first 2 hours.
So I know I am liked because of how people treat me, but I dont socialise much.
And if you dont mind me being too nosey, are you going to work on the judgements thing or are you just saying it as a nice to have and then do nothing about it?
:-)
Posted by: kahless | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Yes kahless it is definitions it seems.
When you socialize with people at work it seems that that is not socializing, but if it is not at work then it is socializing?
Will I work on my lack of judgmentalism? I don't feel the need to at the moment. It does not cause me too much grief being like this, in fact I find it a bit entertaining when I hear others and realize I had not thought of that.
Also, it has its advantages when counselling and is one of the reasons why the antisocial personality can be quite a good counsellor. Not that I am suggesting I have that personality structure!
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
I kind of think that we are always making judgements as counsellors or human beings. The judgements do not necessarily have to be critical or 'negative' though; following some sort of diagnosis sytem, however simplistic or complictaed that process may be.
Everyones a winner baby that's no lie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-GkwIRbLw8
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Like it! Yes this is a winner! I usually ask, what did you want most when you were a child and didnt get. I then do my best to facilitate that in the therapeutic relationship to see how they respond. I shall apply your technique Tony.
As for me ... i was the clever kid. I had to hide my light under a bushel for any of the other kids to come anywhere near me. I was probably a show off with out awareness of the impact that had on others. I got bullied horribly and ended up thinking I was ugly for about .... 30 years! Not nice.
Posted by: Queen Vixen | Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Hi Tony,
Great post Tony. It's very energizing to think about our 6year old kid and to keep him/her close to our heart's. I recently did an activity at my training institute which involved working with an early photo ( i took one of me at around 6yrs). It was very impacting, producing tears for some people and a lot of energy. I like your description of the kids in the playground.
I hope the ragged old flag's still flyin high Tony?
Nick
Posted by: Nick | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
QV - that really isn't nice! I'm so sorry that ever happened to you! I can't think of anything i wanted and didn't get. It may have taken till now to get it though. I guess by now i know if i really wanted it or not.
Kahless,
You were a defender of the weak! You're a hero! I knew it! Gosh you're so wonderful - thanks for being that...
I remember doing such things but i wasn't tough or anything, it was just so uncool to pick on people! Just walk right in, glare everyone down, grab the victim's hand and together - just walk away. Gosh some kids were shameless! I guess it was their own issues that caused them to pick on someone they considered less. HELLO! THERE IS NO ONE THAT'S LESS!!
Tony, that's just another 'idea' too isn't it? It's not real - it's just in our imaginations isn't it?
What i hated the most was... i would hang out with the bullies and the people they would pick on! What did they think, i'd leave a friend to fry because they were my friends too??? There are just some things i don't understand! When i think about it, it might be a good thing i don't understand.
But like you, i had totally different friends during the weekend - depending on my parents friends. They often came from different schools or towns. Some were from the city or a different country. I remember being a teen - 13 or 14 when i took this lovely american couple for a horse ride. I thought all americans could ride horses back then, isn't that where the cowboys and indians come from? Well aparently not. I was pretty dumb back then too.
My first band was made up of 4 people. Me - vocals and rythm guitar - dad DMR(RTA) ganger, mum - home duties mostly, church leaders: then there was the drumer - father was a surgeon: bass guitar - father was an architect: lead guitar - father was a self financed pot head who walked around in a kaftan (late 70's). Gosh i love my life but there's no way i'd go back.
Is this being verbose?
I see you as very judgmental. You try to be obtuse umm, stand back and speak from - objective! that's the word, yeah you do that too but you make very judgmental thoughts. I know i am, it's how I learn. If i didn't make judgments and try them out, i'd never know/learn anything. I'd just blindly believe what ever i'm told. People can get hurt when they allow others to blind fold them and send them on their way.
I'm not even going to bother with the 'flagpole' thing.
It's a hot sticky Wednesday. I hope you get to do something that's nice to do on hot sticky Wednesdays. Cheers
roses
Ohh and Ken?
Benny Hill? Aww that's a cute picture! I don't trust him though.
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
G'day Roses,
Nice of you to say and in one sense strokes by ego, but alas as an adult you could say more fool me!
Have a look at your TA books and look up the drama triangle. You see I wasnt responsible for that kid. I stepped in as rescuer and probably ended up victim. A pattern that yes, I have repeated in adult life. I like to rescue ut can end up victim. And you know what, I assume someone wants to be rescued, maybe they dont. And I assume they cant stick up for themselves when it is their responsibility and maybe they can. To be cutesy I "deny their adult"
But hey, I'd love to be a hero; must be a script thing!
What music did you sing?
p.s. I'm with you on Benny Hill.
Posted by: kahless | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Kahless,
You'll always be a hero to me so it's all good. You're allowed to see you the way you choose to but i like you, so i choose to see you differently. For me... I just can't abide that "we're the kingpin" type thing if it's just another label that enables bullying. Never could handle that kind of stuff. Mind you Kahless, I probably bullied others myself - probably lots.
Yes, i was watching the TA thing in my thoughts when i was reading your comment. The only flaw or thing i don't like about the TA thing is... you were probably not disliked by the person you rescued or any of the people you rescued or their friends or people who admired your ability to stand up to conflict. So, you were never really a victim. You kept standing up and facing what ever consequences were thrown at you. Maybe a little melodrumatic.. umm, what's that word... err... martyr? Kind of like Jesus or Ned Kelly? Their stories are of rescuers that were martyred aren't they? I choose not to see it that way. I know that i would have fought side by side with any of the more popular or more peer-influencing friends - and they knew it too. They each deserved respect - they are all really nice people (whether they appear to be or not) But like you and me - they are/were just people.
In the school band we played mostly 3 - 4 hit wonders. Creedence, beatles, rolling stones, angels, some other random songs that were easy to play too. But later on, well when i turned 15 i played in a band that played a bit of everything - country, rock, disco, old time - just a bit of what ever we could play. Mostly in clubs and halls, up and down the coast. Not a great band but a well paying job. You want to be groped and drooled on by old, drunken, smelly men? Be 15 - 20 or just female, and sing in a band. There is no glammer - believe me! Every where you go people know you - it's horrible! I would have HATED to be famous. Every week, we'd go out or play a sport and you'd be in the paper! Just because they could! No life. It's terrible - like a night mare that never ends.
It's just small town life i suppose. For the last 10 years or so I've been hiding in my home and shop late at night. Most people have forgotten now, so it's better. It really isn't that bad if you like that kind of stuff - and i love to entertain - it's just i like to be not known too. Does that make sense? Sometimes I guess we make a choice to give up what's fun because what comes with it (with the fun that is) makes life unlivable?
Ohh, i've raved again! I'm sorry Tony! Going now... cheers
roses
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Glad you liked the 6yo idea Nick.
In my training especially at the Gouldings they were always referring to that, the 6yo in the client so I guess some of it stuck
From the colonies
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
I loved the YouTube Kenoath,
Memories from days gone by.
It got me a movin' and a shakin' as I listened
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Hello QV,
I recall bullying going on when I was at school. I was never bullied and never did any bullying.
But unlike Kahless it did not sort of occur to me to step in. Nobody ever stepped in and helped the victim
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Ah yes... the "in" crowd. No,. I def was no in that. I was terribly quiet both at school at at home. Very rarely noticed anywhere really... I had to try very hard to keep my tics under control (I had undiagnosed tourette syndrome) and I think this kept the whole of me silent.
However I would not say this is what I am like as an adult, I tend to be a bit of a jester, I make people laugh. I am the life and soul in the local pub and people like me. My tourettes is now diagnosed and I can embrace it.
School was horrible, I did not want to be part of the in crowd as I thought the people were nasty.
Badger
Posted by: Badger | Wednesday, 30 January 2008
Hello Badger,
Glad you found your way to be more out there in adulthood and being the life and soul. That sounds good.
Its funny how the so called "Beautiful people" are so often the ugliest in behavior and attitude!!
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Wednesday, 30 January 2008