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Sunday, 30 March 2008
The Here and Now
There is a person in Australia called Chris Mainwaring. He was a star footballer and after that he became very well known as a media personality. Apparently he was a very nice person who was widely liked. About a year ago he died in somewhat suspicious circumstances where there was illicit drugs involved. He died in his front yard late into the night. Subsequently it has become apparent that he had significant financial difficulties.
Also since then it has become apparent that his wife and his parents despise each other with a vigour and a passion. It has come to the point where the wife has now agreed to give his parents half his ashes from the cremation.
To my mind that is just sicko! Ghoulish to say the least. You can’t just divide a deceased person in two as that is treating the dead with complete disrespect and contempt. What are they going to each get? One gets the left side and one the right? Maybe the top half and bottom half? Perhaps they could later trade a leg and hand for his head?. How will they divide it, by weight and split on the kitchen table with a credit card?
This is on a par with Keith Richards snorting his father’s ashes.
Keef
For heavens sake people move on! That is taking your bad feelings to knew heights. They can’t even cooperate enough so as to keep the poor fellows ashes intact. This is a very good example of not living in the Here and Now
One concept central to psychotherapy for many years has been the idea of the Here and Now and the diagram below is used.
If you stay in the Here and Now it is virtually impossible to feel bad. People stop themselves from staying in the Here and Now in two ways. First they can remove themselves in time. They can move back to point A, which is a time in the past and feel bad about an event from then. Or they can move to a time in the future (Point B) and feel bad about an event to come.
Secondly they can remove them self by going to another place (Point C). In this case the person feels bad about the starving millions in Africa or the civilians in Iraq that are currently suffering.
There are plenty of injustices in the world to feel bad about.
If you stay in the Here and Now in time and place then one avoids their racket feeling. That is the feeling that they have most commonly. The reason why they have it most commonly is because they don’t stay in the Here and Now. And of course it can be any feeling such as depression, anxiety, shame, happiness and so forth.
The key with the diagram, is that you can use it to isolate how you keep out of the Here and Now then you are in a position to change that and thus avoid the racket feeling more. Obviously Chris Mainwaring’s wife and parents aren’t spending much time in the Here and Now and probably are doing a lot of being in the past when she and he treated me so badly. Thus the angst between them can remain for years and years.
Graffiti
19:41 Permalink | Comments (30) | Email this
Comments
Hi Graffiti,
So some peoples racket feeling could be happiness? That must be cool or does it have its downsides?
I think I go to B most often.
As an aside I couldnt help but think of Captain Mainwaring!
And I agree with you, the family and wifes behaviour is absolutely appalling.
Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 30 March 2008
I may have to steal some of your pics but credit them to your blog which is much better than mine.
Posted by: Gene | Monday, 31 March 2008
I hope you understand.
Posted by: Gene | Monday, 31 March 2008
Gene,
you never left your url for us to come see?
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
Hi Tony,
I didn't know that was happening with Chris Mainwaring's ashes. That's sad because there are also two little kids he left behind who are probably getting caught up in all that as well.
KazzaB
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 31 March 2008
But Tony, they're his ashes. I don't understand. Why is that such a terrible thing?
People are fighting over his 'ashes' - isn't that a lovely thing? People get ignored their whole life - imagine the joy if they could only know how much people faught over their ashes.
It's way better than people fighting over an alive person isn't it? Imagine how children feel when they're being faught over by their parents or the courts. That's got to tear them apart in every way. It might be better if it were their ashes in the debate and perhaps (as we hear on the news with such regularity) their adult carers think that way too. Though i've never been ashes myself, i do however assume that it might hurt less. Do ashes feel?
But for the living (left behind) ones in the debate of the ashes - well yes - a terrible place to be. I hope time or a helping hand will lead them through the grief process. It would be a yucky place to be, that's for sure.
Curious - roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 31 March 2008
And anyway! How do you know that's his ashes. Some of them might be but most of it's clothes and the box.. umm.. coffin? And you don't get any of their bones cause they don't burn so well. And, they take all the metal parts (like hip joints and metal plates) and put them in a box somewhere. And teeth too.
When you're dead, i don't think you can feel so much. You're body and mind stop. It's not a person in the little urn, the person lives on in and through us don't they?
I don't understand death.
Really curious now - roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 31 March 2008
They might even be someone else's ashes all together. Mixed with the residue from other people's ashes as well. The bottom line is... they are just ashes. The guy is gone. These people probably just want a reason to fight and this is the one that looked handy, so they jumped on it. It happens.
You know what's weird about ashes? It seems like the urn would be light since it's just 'ash'. I was very surprised when I carried an urn. It was heavier than I had anticipated. Are you sure there are no bone pieces in there, Roses? Or maybe it was the actual urn that was heavy and not the ashes. I dunno.
Hello, Tony.
Posted by: Lynn | Monday, 31 March 2008
I almost forgot... I wanted to add this:
You said, "If you stay in the Here and Now it is virtually impossible to feel bad."
That depends on what is happening in the here and now. When people are sick, injured or in some kind of serious pain or distress, then the here and now is unpleasant and people will feel bad if they stay. I think this point ties in with death, too. I think this is why people reminisce so much after a person dies. They don't want the here and now because their loved one is dead, so they would rather daydream about the past when the person was still alive. Perhaps this was one of the things that led up to the family feud that is mentioned in the post. Maybe if they fight about him, then he is more alive in their minds.
Also, Tony. Don't forget... not everyone who leaves the here and now is doing it on purpose, especially not since the here and now is usually, as you say, better. Sometimes it happens in spite of the effort and desire to be present. (Yeah, I know. That's a whole 'nother blog post.)
xoxoxo
Posted by: Lynn | Monday, 31 March 2008
Did Kieth really snort his dad's ashes? What was he thinking?? Rock and Roll tends to be like living like there is no tomorrow and no past; did he really snort ashes Grafitti?
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 31 March 2008
Good point Kenoath,
I think Keef has lived in them all Kenoath,
the past , future, different place and in the H&N all simultaneously.
He did actually say that he did snort his father's ashes and then later with all the subsequent press retracted the statement saying that it was just a joke. So really no one knows if he did or he didn't
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Monday, 31 March 2008
Hello Lynn,
Yes the H&N can be a real bitch some of the time. But it highlights the difference between something like neurotic anxiety and H&N anxiety.
If one's son is about to die then one can have H&N anxiety. One can also feel anxious about if the boss will chew them out tomorrow and that is considered neurotic anxiety because it is not a H&N event.
The way I look at it Lynn is everyone is doing the best they can psychologically with the resources that they have available to them at this time. So if someone habitually lives in the future and is depressed about it then I don't blame then or think badly of them. Rather I see them as doing the best they can at this time.
Hells Bells I have my neuroses for sure and so how can I be with out sin so I can throw that first stone.
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Hi Kahless,
I also would like to see Gene's blog.
The happy racket is an interesting one and comes from the Pollyanna life script. No matter what happens to them they feel optimistic and happy.
So the person's cat gets run over after it just ate your best goldfish. And hubby has just told you he is leaving you for his secretary and that your father was just diagnosed with cancer. With all that the happy racket person will say something like, "Well there are others who have it worse than me" and then they feel happy.
So it is neurotic happiness in that the H&N would leave one feeling very depressed and angry. As children these people often received lots of strokes for being happy and good. when they were sick or sad they got no strokes. Indeed in adulthood they often get the same so they stay happy regardless of what ill has fallen on them
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Yes KazzaB,
With the mother and in-laws continuing to hate each other what will his children learn from all that.
Many years ago I was very good a holding a grudge KazzaB but in the last ten years really I just can't, no matter how hard I try. Maybe my job has rubbed off on me and really have no sense of the world should be right, just and fair. If one accepts the unfairness of life then it is much easier to be unencumbered by the past
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Hi Tony,
I guess I cant see the downside to neurotic happy! If you are blissfully unaware happy who cares if it is neurotic or not hey?
:-)
Or are you going to tell me that instead all their non happiness gets stuffed down inside and they end up getting a horrible illness and end up suffering a long and slow painful death. But then again, if they are happy in that!!
:-)
I assume you dont see many happy rackets; bet most of your clients are depressed!
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
You got it Kahless,
The full array of emotions is not felt or expressed and yes sooner or later the person will suffer as a result of that. So that is not good for the neurotically happy person but it is great for those around them as the person is always nice and happy.
You tend to see this client in their 30s or 40s and they often state that they don't see the point of it all. Not necessarily suicidal but just life seems to lack a meaning. Of course they do as they are constantly trying to keep everyone else happy except themselves
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Roses,
I saw a documentary once on a crematorium. After they have incinerated the body, the remains are put into another machine which makes sure any odd slice of bone or teeth are ground down fully into ashes. So there wont be any lumpy bits.
I inspected my last dogs ashes. They smelt a bit like salty sea air. It is amazing how small they are in comparison to the size of the body.
What do you mean by not understanding death?
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
Tony,
And I bet they dont know what they can do for themselves to do happy for themselves as they have never done it.
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
Yes Kahless,
To restate what you have said. They have a very low FC as they never ask self what they want, instead they are always asking others what they want.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
I am glad that you were able to understand my very poor english there!
I guess it is small steps for them to work out what they want by experimentation - taking a risk!
btw are you going to do that post on angry and crying?
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
The kings english I think Kahless,
I saw it more as you taking poetic licence.
Yes I will do crying and anger, but now I have to just shoot off for half an hour to watch my favorite TV show.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
I have to get back to work myself.
I will amuse myself wondering what your favourite tv show is; mind you that won't be very H&N !
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
Oh and I forgot to mention, I am on a 2 day presentation workshop from tomorrow. I wonder what they will say about teaching the child?
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
http://www.daharkahless.blogspot.com/ Here tis.
Posted by: Gene | Monday, 31 March 2008
Oh Gene you are definitely a member of the greater order of twatdom!!
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Back from my TV show (obviously!!)
It is border security.
I like those shows where real people are caught doing naughty things like importing drugs, or vegetable matter or money when they shouldn't. I like watching their reactions at the point they realize they are busted and gone. How do they react?
there is probably a PHD in that for someone
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 31 March 2008
Tony I am well confused. Did you or was it Gene who left a comment on my Paris part2 post cos it had both your names. And I was confused as he left my url as his?
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 31 March 2008
Totally confusing Kahless. For a moment there i though you must be him. Cyberspace=confusion, usually for me anyway.
Welcome home!!
My hubby went to a crematorium once. He was sent there by his work because we were getting one here and he needed to know how it worked for some reason. *shrugs* Anyway, he said that they ground up the bones and stuff but he explained it in such a way that made me think that the bones weren't included in the urn. And, the only story i've heard of any ashes is when he had to get some screws for the cemetry thing that they put the box of ashes in. But i have heard of urns and i've seen them on the telly and in movies.
I don't understand death. That's what i meant. I can't seem to understand it, that's all. Ohh, there are so many imaginings in my head about death that when it comes to talking about it, i have no idea what to talk about. Only people who are dead and stay dead can really know what it's like i guess. I've never been dead. That's all i mean.
Tony?
Hope you enjoyed your show. I only have one that i like called "supernatural". It's fun to watch and I keep that time of the week free. Most of the shows i like become soap operas. I hope this one doesn't.
I want an out at sea burial. They say it's getting expensive. There seems to be an awful lot of money in desposing dead bodies!
roses
Posted by: roses | Thursday, 03 April 2008
Kahless,
I can't seem to make a comment on your blog so i'll just say here... Wow you went to Notre Dame? And the art gallary looks amazing!
The tower? It does give a nice view though.
Welcome home!
roses
Posted by: roses | Friday, 04 April 2008
I dnt know why you can't comment Roses; I am sorry for that.
Do you need to understand dead?
Does it really matter cos it just is? And will happen to us all.
I am glad that you have never been dead! I would hate to think that I was talking to a polterghost ( can't think how to spell that.)
Which leads me to a question....
Tony,
Where does psychology stand on people having contact with the dead. I am guessing it doesn't have a stance. But I am intrigued whether it is considered a neurosis or not. I am glad to say btw that amongst my neuroses I don't have that one!!!!!!! Lol! No desire to mix with dark forces.
Posted by: kahless | Friday, 04 April 2008