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Friday, 02 May 2008
Pro-ana
From a pro-ana site.
There is no such thing as an eating disorder. People have anorexic and bulimic life styles because they pursue perfection. Just like elite athletes, musicians and others pursue it.
Perfection is beauty
Pro-ana 10 commandments
1. If you aren't thin you aren't attractive.
2. Being thin is more important than being healthy.
3. You must buy clothes, style your hair, take laxatives, starve yourself, do anything to make yourself look thinner.
4. Thou shall not eat without feeling guilty.
5. Thou shall not eat fattening food without punishing oneself afterwards.
6. Thou shall count calories and restrict intake accordingly.
7. What the scale says is the most important thing.
8. Losing weight is good/gaining weight is bad.
9. You can never be too thin.
10. Being thin and not eating are signs of true will power and success.
Gemma Ward
Pro-ana creed
I believe in Control, the only force mighty enough to bring order to the chaos that is my world.
I believe that I am the most vile, worthless and useless person ever to have existed on this planet, and that I am totally unworthy of anyone's time and attention.
I believe that other people who tell me differently must be idiots. If they could see how I really am, then they would hate me almost as much as I do.
I believe in oughts, musts and shoulds as unbreakable laws to determine my daily behavior.
I believe in perfection and strive to attain it.
I believe in salvation through trying just a bit harder than I did yesterday.
I believe in calorie counters as the inspired word of god, and memorize them accordingly.
I believe in bathroom scales as an indicator of my daily successes and failures
I believe in hell, because I sometimes think that I'm living in it.
I believe in a wholly black and white world, the losing of weight, recrimination for sins, the abnegation of the body and a life ever fasting.
Eating is this
Secrecy tips
Don't bring up the subject of food around other people. Have your excuses for not eating ready in case they should bring the subject up. Some excuses I use : "My stomach's a little upset", "I'm too (tired, excited, nervous, busy, etc) to eat", "I don't feel like (whatever food it is), I'll get something later", "I did eat, didn't you see?", and "I stopped by (Burger King, Subway, etc) earlier".
Don't deny everything if confronted. People will believe a little truth with a big lie much easier than a huge lie. Act as if it's no big deal instead of reacting emotionally and people will tend to believe you.
Watch where you dispose of uneaten food or other "evidence", make sure that it isn't going to be seen or found by anyone. Wrap food up and throw it away outside the house. If you live alone, always take the trash out before anyone else comes over.
Graffiti
17:50 Permalink | Comments (29) | Email this
Comments
The person who wrote that site is a sick twisted b*****d.
They are a destroyer of lives.
I am cross now.
Sick ******-*******
I bet they are not annorexic. I think they just get off on the misery of others.
They are *****.
Grrr!
Anyway, I had better go wash my mouth out with soap now.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I cant wait to hear everyones take on it. I am sure it will be more measured than mine!
Posted by: Kahless | Friday, 02 May 2008
A person does not really have to delve very deeply to see that anorexia is not really about being thin. Some sufferers claim that it is, but if you listen to their beliefs and/or fears, it is easy to see that they want to believe it is about being thin because then they can pretend they don't have any major issues. I don't know about OZ, but pretending not to have major issues is a major way of life for many in the U.S.
Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 03 May 2008
I have just been looking at some pro ana sites. I never knew they existed.
An eye opener.
I feel terribly sad for some of these women. Some of their posts are heart wrenching.
This world is insane.
Posted by: Kahless | Saturday, 03 May 2008
Kahless and Lynn,
I have given this area some thought since I first came across pro-ana sites.
In this country at least we adopted the harm minimization approach to drug use. That means if some one is injecting drugs habitually the counsellor (And society) does not seek to stop them using but instead to help them use more safely. They are seen as having made a life style choice where their body is being ravaged.
If a person is morbidly obese they are at least to some extent accepted in the same way. And indeed some things that elite athletes do to their bodies is damaging for sure. Again these people have made a life style choice.
There is a blog called
"Fat lot of good" (http://fatlotofgood.wordpress.com/)
Where they espouse that if a person is fat then that is their right and they should not be discriminated against and that fat people are OK.
So what difference is their with the anorexic or the bulimic?. On pro-ana sites they say they are making a lifestyle choice. Are they? And if so do we accept that in the same way? That the concept of eating disorder is a violation of their rights and discriminatory against them?
I don't know
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 03 May 2008
Well, Tony, I can only really address an angle this specific from my own experience and cannot really speak that broadly, but I do understand what you have said here about what is on the sites. I can't go look at them myself because I know damn well I am not completely immune to the old ways and I rather prefer to remain healthy. :-)
What I am saying is that I thought even using self-injury as a tool to engage with or disengage from dissociative states was also a lifestyle choice. Was it, really? Well, I don't really know. I guess that depends on how one defines the phrase 'lifestyle choice'. I didn't really know what I was doing, I just knew I needed to do it sometimes to keep my head above water as far as functioning goes. It was the same with anorexia. Whenever someone would make a remark about my weight, I would simply tell them that I had a fast metabolism and sometimes I got stressed out and anxious which stole my appetite. And this was true, but what I didn't know is that the reason not eating relieved my stress, was because it was a way for me to disallow a 'foreign other' (food) to take up residence in my body. I was trying to protect myself from things that had already happened. I just wonder how many who think they are making a lifestyle choice are doing the same or similar. Perhaps they have had to come up with this platform to protect themselves from the feelings of being hassled and disapproved of by those who are not affected this way. I get hung up on the word 'choice'. It implies to me that someone just decided one day, after considering it, that they want to be anorexic. I guess I see real choices as being conscious things rather than unconscious ones. Perhaps the real choice they have made is not to get help for recovery, but I doubt that people sit around deliberating which psychological problems they will 'adopt', and that is what the word choice implies to me.
If you want to see an example of the lengths one will go to to defend a behaviour like this, I will come back in a minute to show you. I have to go find something in a place where rationalization reigns supreme. Even when it's whacked.
Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 03 May 2008
Ok, I'm back. Here it is. I wrote this in response to bloggers going off on self-injurers and engaging in name-calling and ridicule. Perhaps it is similar to how some anorexics feel at the sites you have visited. When they hear how 'wrong' and 'dangerous' they are from people who do not understand them, they want to protect themselves and thus it becomes a choice?
This is my defence of SI from more than a year ago when I was actively doing it:
"I notice people in comments who describe knowing about this behavior as 'unnerving' and asking about immediate steps to take to 'stop' this behavior. This bothers me and makes me feel judged by people who don't even know me -- and all on account of a single behavior. If someone wants to do something for someone who engages in these behaviors, perhaps they could try to accept and understand instead of freaking out.
I am anonymous here because I don't talk about this on my blog. It is embarrassing and not something I walk around advertising. I am not a 'Borderline' personality and I am not insane. I am hurt. Horribly and greiviously injured and yet I am still trying to live a life. I have been beaten, tortured, raped... I could go on with it, but I won't. I will simply say that it offends me when people act as if someone is a freak for doing these things. What business is it of anyone else's if this is the tool that I have to be able to keep on living?
I have a home and a family to care for. I have business to take care of. I can't take care of things when I am numb and cannot concentrate. I cannot take care of things when I am dead inside or when I am very anxious and scared. I prefer this to being some kind of prescription junkie. I am not hurting anyone. No one knows about this except my husband, my therapist, and a few internet friends. I am not trying to damage myself or anyone else, I am simply trying to have something that a non-traumatized person takes for granted -- a life!! Is that so wrong? If you think it is, then ask yourself this -- are you hurting yourself? Do you drink, smoke an occasional joint, take pills, smoke cigarettes, stuff yourself with unhealthy food, cruise through your day loaded with caffeine? You are regulating your mood. Just like me.
Please understand me. I am not some kind of freak or nut. I am just a human being. A human being like you."
Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 03 May 2008
They are good statements Lynn and I think you make some good points in a passionate type of way. Good for you.
I particularly note your comment that SI was a tool for you. I like that metaphor you use there and would see the same for people who eat in a physically unhealthy way.
As I have said before I don't believe that I judge such people. Indeed I at times worry about my lack of judgement, i feel at times that I don't have any and that can not be good.
Pro-ana sites I find interesting. Here are a group of people doing this thing but I lack any sense of someone is doing some bad thing. As I find it interesting I seek out more information and think about what this group of people may be doing. There are some in the media here where I live that cry out that such sites should be shut down.
I understand why they say that but pro-ana sites are saying something else as well and I will probably write more details on this tomorrow (Its 7pm here at the moment).
At that workshop I keep mentioning a few weeks ago the idea of the paradoxical theory of change was addressed. Pro-ana sites are saying, "We are OK!!", We are people who choose to live like this and that is OK".
To quote from the paradoxical theory of change: "change can occur when the patient abandons, at least for the moment, what he would like to become and attempts to be who he is.” (P88)
So according to this the more one becomes a pro-ana the more likely they are to eat in a more healthy way.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 03 May 2008
Do you think Tony, that if these people who are demanding they're ok but are constantly called 'patients' which eludes to them that they are indeed 'ill', the paradoxal theory may change lanes? I mean, if they are ok, and then find they need to battle against the suggestion that they aren't, is their change going to change too?
Did i even 'get' that last comment you made? I'm going to have to come back here after some sleep and have another look i think.
Good night blog land... roses
Posted by: roses | Saturday, 03 May 2008
I have so much to say that i'll apologize for the length of this in advance :)
"In this country at least we adopted the harm minimization approach to drug use. That means if some one is injecting drugs habitually the counsellor (And society) does not seek to stop them using but instead to help them use more safely. They are seen as having made a life style choice where their body is being ravaged."
Yes and no. I actually work in a substance abuse clinic and i'll be the first to tell you that we (and society) encourage clients to STOP. Although recovery is a disease of relapse and because we all know that, reducing risk is crucial. I do see what you're referring to but your logic (and metaphor) is flawed. Teaching safer drug use reduces risk of HIV and other communicable diseases - so that's the concern with injecting. Teaching safer drug use (1. always buy a new needle, 2. if not available, teach how to properly clean a needle) isn't simply "accepting a life style choice." It's teaching skills for recovery and prevention that are not at all parallel to embracing pro-ana sites when examining individuals suffering from eating disorders.
Moving on to your pro-ana stuff. The reason your post hit such a nerve with me isn't just because you normalized the pro-ana movement and eating disorders in general (even though that itself would have been enough to get me to comment). But the fact that your post almost glamorizes eating disorders and pro-ana. I understand you said this all fascinates you but there's a difference in being interested in something and putting it up in an information way and normalizing/glamorizing it.
Going back to your IV drug user analogy: it's overly simplistic to compare the two. What i mean is that although eating disorders, drug use, gambling, ect are all additions, they are not at all the same thing which is why treatment and preventions differs so greatly. Masking the complexity and differences between them (like you have done) oversimplifies the issue and only misinforms your readers. Addictions are not equal and comparing harm reduction methods used with IV drug users to individuals suffering from eating disorders is dangerous.
What my suggestion would have been for your post about pro-ana sites and the pro-ana community is to include some kind of a disclaimer about the dangerousness of eating disorders and especially not to glorify EDs. Also, some balance of sites/people who are anti pro-ana as well as links/resources for individuals struggling with an eating disorder who land on your page by accident. Those are the ones i'm most worried about. Instead of getting help they only see the glorified side of the disease and enter into the pro-ana community and their disorder even further.
Posted by: feministgal | Saturday, 03 May 2008
As to the matter of judgement, Tony, perhaps it is fine to judge the behaviour as being harmful without condemning the person.
You wrote: "To quote from the paradoxical theory of change: "change can occur when the patient abandons, at least for the moment, what he would like to become and attempts to be who he is.” (P88)
So according to this the more one becomes a pro-ana the more likely they are to eat in a more healthy way."
I don't believe that the more one becomes a pro-ana the more likely they are to eat in a healthy way. Maybe the paradoxical theory of change can be viewed in another light. This is what I see through my own experience:
Change can occur when the patient abandons what he would like to become (a person who eventually overcomes their problems by employing harmful behaviours) and attempts to be who he is (a person who has some pain that needs to be addressed).
Having said that, I can also tell you from much experience that it will only anger or alienate the person to be told to 'stop that'. I simply think that it is more useful to focus on what the underlying problem is that drives the behaviour and to try to minimize the harm in a compassionate way in the meantime.
When I was anorexic, it was not a 'goal' for me to be thin, I simply did not like to eat and felt a relief from anxiety when I allowed myself to not eat. When my doctor became concerned in a non-judgemental way, I realized that I really was too thin and it might endanger my health, so I started eating more. Which made me anxious. So, I started drinking and smoking! When I felt that my health was threatened by alcohol, I had to let that go, too. I landed back in the self-injury behaviours. The whole point is, unless the underlying cause of unhealthy behaviours is found and addressed with compassion, people will just find new destruction without intending to, EVEN when their wish is to be healthy. This is why I don't think cognitive/ behaviour therapies are much good, and may even be harmful to some in the longrun, unless the real issues are addressed and worked through. I understand about 'improving the neurosis', but I just don't see that as helpful to traumatized individuals. And yes, I believe that the majority who engage with destuction have been traumatized in some way. I know not everyone believes this, but I think that is due to the societal denial that is in place to provide people with false comfort. There is really no taboo against abuse or incest in our society, there is only a taboo against talking about it and pointing fingers at those who have done it. As long as things remain this way, traumatized people will keep findng harm in some form and that is really the bottom line that almost no one wants to see.
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 04 May 2008
As to the matter of judgement, Tony, perhaps it is fine to judge the behaviour as being harmful without condemning the person.
You wrote: "To quote from the paradoxical theory of change: "change can occur when the patient abandons, at least for the moment, what he would like to become and attempts to be who he is.” (P88)
So according to this the more one becomes a pro-ana the more likely they are to eat in a more healthy way."
I don't believe that the more one becomes a pro-ana the more likely they are to eat in a healthy way. Maybe the paradoxical theory of change can be viewed in another light. This is what I see through my own experience:
Change can occur when the patient abandons what he would like to become (a person who eventually overcomes their problems by employing harmful behaviours) and attempts to be who he is (a person who has some pain that needs to be addressed).
Having said that, I can also tell you from much experience that it will only anger or alienate the person to be told to 'stop that'. I simply think that it is more useful to focus on what the underlying problem is that drives the behaviour and to try to minimize the harm in a compassionate way in the meantime.
When I was anorexic, it was not a 'goal' for me to be thin, I simply did not like to eat and felt a relief from anxiety when I allowed myself to not eat. When my doctor became concerned in a non-judgemental way, I realized that I really was too thin and it might endanger my health, so I started eating more. Which made me anxious. So, I started drinking and smoking! When I felt that my health was threatened by alcohol, I had to let that go, too. I landed back in the self-injury behaviours. The whole point is, unless the underlying cause of unhealthy behaviours is found and addressed with compassion, people will just find new destruction without intending to, EVEN when their wish is to be healthy. This is why I don't think cognitive/ behaviour therapies are much good, and may even be harmful to some in the longrun, unless the real issues are addressed and worked through. I understand about 'improving the neurosis', but I just don't see that as helpful to traumatized individuals. And yes, I believe that the majority who engage with destuction have been traumatized in some way. I know not everyone believes this, but I think that is due to the societal denial that is in place to provide people with false comfort. There is really no taboo against abuse or incest in our society, there is only a taboo against talking about it and pointing fingers at those who have done it. As long as things remain this way, traumatized people will keep findng harm in some form and that is really the bottom line that almost no one wants to see.
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 04 May 2008
Hello Feministgal,
And thank you for your comments. I had a brief look at your blog and you seem to make some interesting comments. Also your survey in the side bar about how do you identify as a feminist or otherwise raises some questions.
I have certainly not attempted to glorify the pro-ana lifestyle and I would not want to. This blog is about observing and discussing human behaviour its not about presenting balanced debates on pro-ana or anti pro-ana sides of the argument. That is for others to do.
At the moment I get about 200 to 300 visits per day and if I was to worry about how any of these people might take what I write I would be qualifying my statements endlessly such that one could barely work out what I was saying in the first place. So my disclaimer to readers is - be cautious with any information you come across on the www, there is no editorial process and there are some sick mother fuckers out there. Also the vast majority are good people who just want to say stuff. Then go and look for what people say even if you don’t like or agree with it and encourage them to say more.
The part that interests me about pro-ana is that there are a group of people out there saying this stuff, so lets listen to what they are saying even if we don’t like it. At the moment I am working with two females who are bulimic. They are both in their late twenties so the very regular binge and purging has been past but they still do engage in it on a weekly basis.
There is a large amount said in the professional literature and the media about eating disorders and it is virtually all about how damaged and sick these people are. That is what I see as a positive in the pro-ana stuff. These women are saying, “I am OK” despite what you tell me. That must be therapeutic in itself and it gives me more of an understanding about the two clients that I am currently working with. This group of people have of their own volition shown a spark of life in defining themselves as OK against the tsunami of contrary statements made by professionals and the media.
So I certainly admire them for that and it again shows the spark to life and growth that the human possesses. So how can we take this positive from the pro-ana groups and at the same time avoid the negatives that are also in their creed.
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Sunday, 04 May 2008
Thanks for your comments Lynn and your willingness to tell your story and I think you make a good point about the why behind 'symptoms' that some people can have. And your statements about symptom substitution. I agree with them.
I do wonder sometimes about the statement, "As to the matter of judgement, Tony, perhaps it is fine to judge the behaviour as being harmful without condemning the person.".
In psychology and psychotherapy circles you hear this being said from time to time. In one way I think it is a load of BS and is just stated to make the therapist feel better about self.
The main problem that I have with it is that it is too intellectual to have any real meaning to the Child ego state. It can certainly make sense to the client's Adult but the Child ego state may see it as a load of hogwash. The Child ego state will think things like - 'so you are saying that deep down Hitler was really a good guy'.
Also like when a parent who is about to smack a young child and says "This is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you". It makes sense to the Adult ego state but is meaningless to the Child ego state.
Hope you are having a good Sunday
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 04 May 2008
Hmmm... this is very interesting what you say about how the child ego state interprets judging the behaviour without condemning the person. I DO think there is something to how you are seeing that. Also, though, it might vary a little from client to client? I can tell you something about how my therapist helped me to stop injuring myself that might shed some light on how that worked for me. And I have not 'replaced' it with anything else. As a matter of fact, my very last bad habit is nearing its extinction. As you read how he helped me, keep in mind that I had the demon (intelligent, but feral bullshit detector) listening in at all times. :-)
I left a comment for someone else who has since stopped SI. I will go fetch it, as it tells the story nicely and briefly. Be right back.
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 04 May 2008
This particular incident of self-injury was worse than any other and I just barely escaped needing a doctor because I did end up developing an infection. Lucky for me, it didn't get much of chance to set in and I treated it aggressively. Okay, here it is. The beginning of the REAL end of SI.--
"I haven't hurt myself in a while now. I think things started to change when I was talking with my therapist one night when I was in a HUGE amount of emotional pain. I called him and I was very, very distraught. He was really nice about the whole thing and he asked me where I was in the house, what I was doing and how I had tried to soothe myself. Well... I told him what I had done. And he said something like, "But you already have so much suffering..." He sounded almost like he might cry himself. That made me feel something funny in my chest, like... I can't explain it... but I felt for myself, if that makes any sense. A slow realization began to creep in after that. I have been hurt so much... and I took over the job myself when the abusers were gone. I was hurting myself and it seemed so unfair. The next time I felt desperate to control my feelings and felt like resorting to that, I heard my therapist's voice and I felt that feeling for myself that he felt for me first."
Tony, I think this was the beginning of self-love.
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 04 May 2008
Good comment Lynn,
It is always interesting to hear people report of a defining moment in their therapy and it sounds like you have done that. And then you state it eloquently as the beginning of self-love.
Good for you Lynn and good for your therapist.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 04 May 2008
Yeah Lynn,
I was wondering, do you remember a time when you had self-love before you found it missing?
Tony,
Is it like when we break our leg and it hurts and hurts so much. Then we get the plaster on it for ages and ages hobbling, hurting and itching. Then we loose the plaster and we've got this pale, appendage that is weak and weird but doesn't hurt anymore but we no longer trust that it won't hurt again. So some of us, gain muscle strength and trust for that leg over time but others of us never really learn trust and there fore never regain our muscle strength and leg mobility again? (Without help that is)
Is that what it's like?
I know some people who drive in Sydney and only take the back roads. They have learned to live with the symptoms of a busy innercity mess and have generated habits to eleviate the stressful and costly (tolls) travel that comes with the Sydney life style. But when i go there i find it much easier to just keep to the main routes. The main routes cost but they are designed to cater to the huge traffic demands of the innercity populous. Once upon a time they too used to use the main roads but have learned ways to avoid the stress of it all and instead take the many different ally ways and mish mesh of streets.
But the thing is Tony, that they get there. One way or another they get to where they need to go and once there, get the living done. Avioding the 'hot spots' in life, is ok isn't it? I mean there are many people who have accidents on the main road and die and there are also many people who have accidents on the back roads and die. So... what's the difference?
Understanding this stuff is really difficult because most of the stuff is just personal choice of how to avoid the 'hot spots' in our lives. As you have posted before - some people aim for the 'hot spots' because of the pain it causes. That's what they want. But that's ok isn't it? They're ok to make those choices aren't they?
I'm off for a couple of days. Have a good week just cause you can...
roses
Ohh and Ps, I sent my essay in on Friday. Now i'm off to buy some nappies because i'm pooing my pants about it again. I'm so loving the impossible-ness of all of this stuff! Probably not the most politically correct thing to say to you in this blog here, but - i think i need to have my head read!
Posted by: roses | Monday, 05 May 2008
By the way Tony - whose birthday was it that you had posted in that little box that has your next 'training day' in now? And what's your next training day all about? Not that i'm going to hitch all the way over there to train with you - just curious i guess.
Happy week... roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 05 May 2008
Roses, I cant remember when I had self love.
Are we born with it and lose it?
Or does it have to be nutured?
Lynn, I really liked your comments here. {{{Lynn}}}
Posted by: Kahless | Monday, 05 May 2008
Then again something that popped into my head from my religious childhood says that you cant love anyone else unless you love thyself. Is that try from a psychological perspective?
Can you truly love someone else if you dont love yourself?
Oh and Tony, not that I want to now but for future reference am I allowed to swear on your blog? Of course I would never swear at someone here, just I always thought that I had better not swear as I am your guest yet you did, so I am wondering if you dont mind? And I would try and not use bad swear words.
Posted by: Kahless | Monday, 05 May 2008
Kahless,
Every time i ask someone for a hug because i think i need one... is that self love?
When i'm ill and i go to the doctor hoping to get well again... is that self love?
If every we go out to spacifically do something for 'me' ... is that self love?
Actually, just the fact that you see a therapist - isn't that self love?
Love...
It's like i know what it means but there are so many things that i just don't understand that make me question so much!
When people say they 'love' each other, that doesn't mean that they're always being nice to eachother does it? Isn't that kind of the same with self love? We're not always being nice to ourselves but sometimes we remember that we're human too and we need some lovin - even if it's only from ourselves? Most of the time i'm pretty tough on me. But i sometimes remember that i need. I must be pretty important to me to realise that I guess.
I don't swear cause i don't want to - but i think Tony and Ken swear quite a bit. I don't know the rules for that kind of stuff... but that you've asked - i think wow! So sweet.
Happy week... roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 05 May 2008
I like the questions you ask above, Roses. Love is a feeling. What you are describing are actions. However, they are actions that are generally used to express the feeling of love. Which makes me feel good - because I love Kahless. :-) I wish she were my next door neighbour.
No, Roses. I do not think I ever had any self-love before this. I did not understand the concept of being a person who was worthy of love and respect. I did not think I was as valuable as other people. My parents treated me so very badly for all of my childhood, that I just grew up 'knowing' that I was worthless and disgusting. In thinking about this, I wondered why the true love of my husband did not show me how to love myself and why the love of my therapist did. It's because of sex. The therapist's care made a difference for me because it was completely non-sexual. I guess I felt like I never had anyone really and truly care for me without wanting something in return. This made me feel like I must be loveable and worthy of care. Even though I used to be such a brat to him sometimes, he still cares about me. It's hard for me to explain how that has changed things.
Posted by: Lynn | Monday, 05 May 2008
I think you ask good questions too Roses.
I dont know any answers.
Lynn, my neighours think we are hill-billies as we dont keep our front garden in good check. I reckon you wouldnt care about that though. I would love to be your neighour. :-)
Posted by: Kahless | Tuesday, 06 May 2008
He was a good friend of mine from high school days Roses. Although in recent years we have seen less of each other so it was good to catch up again.
Yes we have known each other that long. I'll put a few photos up from those days.
The workshop on that all day training is going to be presentations in the morning. My section is on how and why people tend to get into the same sort of relationships over and over again. Then in the afternoon myself and the other leader are going to do co-therapy group using the Relational approach
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 06 May 2008
Hello Kahless,
I don't mind at all if you do a bit of cussin' on the old grafittimeister's blog. Not too many things offend me like that.
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 06 May 2008
Kahless,
We don't even have a front garden. Gosh - we don't have a back one or even a side one. But we do have grass and dirt and some bushes and a few small trees. Oh yeah - and dogs and a cat that are out there sometimes. We did have tomatoes this summer but they're all gone now and even then we had to use a whipper-snipper to find them. Did lose quite a few getting to them that way... win some lose some.
Lynn,
Love is a feeling? Love is a feeling. There is a feeling we call love.
Do you think, perhaps that... men and women are attracted to each other and that it's just that simple? You know... that farimone thing? (Try to guess what that word is supposed to be please *giggles* - thanks)
But sex is just really for production of the species isn't it?
So we feel we really should reproduce and we go out and get all excited when we meet a guy or girl (oh yeah - apart from the fact that it's rather nice too) but some people say there's one person in all the world that is the right one for each person. Like a 'soul mate'. Which is a really nice thought but not a very sound argument i think.
And then there's the people who fall in and out of love all the time. And then there are people like me who love mangos. What do you call a half person half mango baby? Mellow Yellow? Nice and sweet? Umm, Jaundice? *shrugs*
So... the word is used in all different ways and perhaps that's why it's so weird. I mean - it's a really weird word. Fairdinkum... it has been spread so thin its lost its flavour! Totally!
Guess its not important. Sorry bout the rave.
I'm so glad you found your 'self love' again. I truly hope it's a nice thing Lynn.
roses
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
And Tony?
If you get that many visitors... why don't they write? Why don't they stop to say g'day to us?
And... where does it say that? Is it here on the screen somewhere? Does it bother you that they visit? I guess i visit blogs and don't say g'day always so... it probably happens alot.
Imagine the fun yacks we could have if every one said something? Oh, i just thought of something... maybe they're not nice people and we should be glad they don't comment. Maybe they thing we're not nice people and don't comment.
We're nice people! You can comment if you like.
Happy Wednesday night Tony... roses
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
Roses,
On blogspirit when you log in you automatically get the statistics weather you want them or not. they are updated on a daily basis.
People don't comment because I suppose they do not want to. As I have said before the main purpose of this blog is the development of ideas on psychotherapy and psychology and human nature in general. Many of the ideas on here end up in some form of formal publication.
It allows me to write the idea down and then think about it more and then if necessary write some more. The posts on extractive identification are a classic example where I ended up with four of them.
The post on pro-ana was good due to the comments made and clarified a number of points for me when I formalize writing on the topic of the paradoxical nature of change.
Some of what I write here is quite cutting edge stuff and some people seem to like to read it, but they seem to prefer to comment either face to face or back channel. Again with the posts on extractive identification this particularly happened.
Indeed I had a client comment the other day that when reading the post on pro-ana it reminded her of how she was given the nickname 'ana' by her friends when she was 16.
tony
tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
Roses,
How long did you read this blog before you first commented?
It was about 6 months for me. It took me that long because I felt like I was probably a flee of the ass of a giraffe.
Some people are shy Roses and therefore dont comment; others as per the reasons Tony said. I think it is cool that you always make people feel welcome.
xx.
Posted by: Kahless | Thursday, 08 May 2008