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Wednesday, 07 May 2008
It shouldn’t be working but it is
I have been counselling a female client for about 6 weeks. From the moment I first met her I did not like her much and I still feel the same about her. It’s not a really big dislike such that I can not be in the same room as her but she is just not my kind of person. I have never suggested that she make another appointment to see me but at the end of each session she asks and I have agreed. If she didn’t ask for another appointment I would feel glad. When I look at my client list for the day and see her name I am certainly not uplifted at the prospect of meeting with her.
I find her to have a ‘sleazy’ quality. I didn’t know women could be sleazy but that is the feeling I get. She has quite bitchy relationships with her female friends. Whilst she reports being unfairly on the receiving end of their bitchiness I am quite sure that she gives out as good as she gets in that department. She has a nasty quality about her. I don’t mind people who are angry but when the anger gets nasty and they go out of their way to actively besmirch the character of a another person I don’t like that. She can also be a bully and whilst she is not abusive to her 10 year old son he will be in counselling in 20 years time for sure.
I don’t believe half of the things she tells me and the following a is typical example. Last week she asked for an appointment on Tuesday, but there were no places available so she took a time on Wednesday. Come Tuesday morning I get a phone call from her and the following conversation takes place:
Client: I was just wanting to confirm what my time is today.
Me: You don’t have an appointment for today, its tomorrow.
Client: Oh! I didn’t realise that. (Bit of silence) What time is it tomorrow?
Me: 2pm
Client: Oh! (Bit of silence) Do you have any times free today?
Me: No I don’t
Client: See you tomorrow then.
She lies. I don’t believe for a moment that she got the days wrong. She didn’t like the fact that I did not rearrange my schedule to fit in with her or make an extra appointment at the end of the day, so she tried it on this way.
So that is the deal. Not my kind of person. However, I don’t dislike her that much so as to never see her again. My chosen profession is as a counsellor so I see her and make a buck to support my kids and myself. In my mind it is a business transaction.
How some people hide.
However, over the six sessions she has done very good work, better than most. Her childhood was far from good and she really has taken on her demons with a strength of character that you don’t usually see. Her Child ego state is quite excluded and her main method of survival was to emotionally withdraw from people and relationships so as to avoid further hurt and rejection. She trusts others very little. The degree to which she challenges herself and makes redecisions is more adventuresome than most. Whilst I admire this I still don’t like her much.
The problem is that our therapeutic relationship is almost completely dysfunctional. I don’t like her, I don’t trust her, I have little empathy for her, and as far as being attuned with her there is virtually none!
The therapy should have ended up like this.
But she has done great therapeutic work and continues to do so.
It shouldn’t be working but it is.
Graffiti
17:50 Permalink | Comments (25) | Email this
Comments
Are you getting stuck in her game Tony?
Is she the kind of personality that you'd get caught in a rut with?
Do you know anyone who she reminds you of?
Has she had many other therapists?
Be well... roses
Ps, i'm glad it seems to be working. You've been a therapist for a long time so i guess you know what you're doing. Be well...
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
Maybe she is so used to being disliked that it doesn't bother her :-).
I guess this just proves that although we are told that clients know when we are faking it, that is not necessarily the case.
Posted by: Madeleine | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
Madeleine,
You seem to be casting doubt on my character
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
Am I?? Well you are faking it? Aren't you?? Maybe not.
Posted by: Madeleine | Wednesday, 07 May 2008
I liked reading this post.
I don't think you are faking it. You respect her in the sense that she is making use of the time with you and changing. She feels that change and respects your help. So mutual respect within your relationship is probably being picked up by her.
Sadly maybe she has no-one in her life that likes her / loves her so she doesnt realise the general dysfunction in the therapeutic relationship. Maybe she has no frame of reference of what a healthy relationship is? Maybe no-one has shown her respect before?
Oh I dont know.
Sometimes it can take years to realise their was no love when you thought there was.
Posted by: Kahless | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Graffitimeister,
do you think it makes a difference in how you get on with your clients as to whether they approach you in the main from a parent ego state or a child? Is she harder work (my words) because she has an excluded child?
I wonder, would she benefit from knowing that you consider the therapeutic relationship to be dysfunctional? Would it open up a wider area of re-decisioning in her life?
Posted by: Kahless | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Kahless said, "Sadly maybe she has no-one in her life that likes her / loves her so she doesnt realise the general dysfunction in the therapeutic relationship. Maybe she has no frame of reference of what a healthy relationship is? Maybe no-one has shown her respect before?"
A distinct possibility. Tony, I once had a therapist who made nasty sexual remarks, visited my home when my husband was not there, etc. I did not understand that this was very, very wrong. This was the kind of thing I was used to from my whole life and I knew nothing different. It wasn't until he actually put his hands on me when I didn't feel good and I had to kick him out of my apartment that I was able to see that it was wrong. Wanna know why I thought it was wrong? Only because I was married and my husband was violent! There is no telling what might have happened to me if I had been going to that therapist when single. I would not have had any 'rules' to protect me and I would not have known what a severe dysfunction it was. I didn't KNOW anything else.
Maybe she doesn't even understand that the two of you don't have what is preferred in therapy. I wouldn't be surprised if she has never known anything different and that is why this seems fine to her but not to you. Probably all of her relationships are limited like that. Especially since the child is excluded. I wonder how she would respond to something that might engage the child. In the meantime - I guess we can't like everyone. At least you have some basic respect. You never know what could happen.
Posted by: Lynn | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Hi Tony
It amazes me how clients can change even when there isn't much evidence to support it. You are very honest about how you respond to this client and I find that both intriguing and a little edgy. I wonder how it might be to share some of that with her.
I am concerned that she may recognise herself if she read your blog. If so, is it ethical to write about her in this way?
What shadow part of you might she represent that you would perhaps rather not look at?
How might this transparency be of service or disservice to the overall therapeutic process?
Posted by: Hullaballoo | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Hello Hullaballoo,
I am most cautious when commenting on a particular client and this person will never find this I am sure, and a significant part of the client data has been fictionalized.
I like that word fictionalized, it sounds so, sort of technical.
Your comment about her representing my shadow, dark side or my Lilith is an interesting one.
Can a cigar just be a cigar, or a train going into a tunnel just be a train going into a tunnel? Probably not? But what do you do?
She has requested treatment, pays her money and I provide the techniques to fulfill her treatment contracts. She is doing well at this time and can leave when ever she wants. Sounds like a fair deal to me.
If she asks me directly if I like her or what is my opinion of her, then I have a problem. But I will worry about that when and if it should ever arrive. I haven't formulated an answer, to that question, just in case it is asked, which intrigues me a bit
I react to her like most of the rest of the world does. Can she live out her transference neurosis with me and still change. At this point it seems like a yes. "Such is life" is my attitude to it all at this point.
("Such is life" is what bushranger Ned Kelly said as he was about to die at the hands of the British colonist. In more recent years the great man Ben Cousins has taken up the phrase)
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Yes Kahless,
As you point out I think those who love her and like her in life are few and far between, and perhaps she is not even aware of that fact.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 08 May 2008
It seems I also agree with you Lynn,
As you agreed with kahless on this point.
Perhaps I could engage her Child ego state?
Well I could do that but I have no desire to at all. If I did that then I would not be being true to myself. Its not my job to save the world or various inhabitants of it.
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Thursday, 08 May 2008
It is interesting to me what my initial reaction was when I read this post and that which I have reading your last comment.
The reaction was 'does my counsellor like me?'. I think she does but what if she doesn't? Cos I have the added complication that Mrs K was a client of hers about 15 years ago and she thinks Mrs K is fabulous. Sometimes I wonder if my counsellor thinks 'what is a fuckwit like her doing with such a fabulous person like Mrs K'.
I wouldn't like it if my counsellor didn't like me and I would terminate immediately. I guess the logical answer is to ask her but I don't want to get into all the subsequent why questions. To much hassle. I assume she likes me.
Anyway I wonder if this client wonders.
Do all clients wonder?
By the way I agree totally with the crap that you can 'love the sinner but hate the sin' my child doesn't buy that. My parents used to say that to me. But then again isn't the core concept of TA iok uok so how does that fit?
And why I am on a roll can I ask (been meaning to for a while) do babies have a PAC. I am thinking how can the PA be developed so the answer is no?
Posted by: kahless | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Hello Kahless,
Ask your counsellor if she/he likes you. Why not? Put the person on the spot, and get a straight answer hopefully.
It is a good question to ask a counsellor. Most I am afraid would be far less than candid with the truth. They all have been trained to be empathetic and attuned with their clients. So much so that they have forgotten to be truthful, mainly to themselves. This is probably a bit too harsh on them.
But they are highly trained and that has its downside. It is harder to be just themselves, instead they are directed to be something else.
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Thursday, 08 May 2008
I had the same reaction as kahless---"oh great, does my shrink dislike me?" Although we've talked about it-----he must see some people that bore him or annoy him and I just hope I'm not one of them...
Posted by: April | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Also, I like your use of the horse/cowboy image (and your images in general are good).
Posted by: April | Thursday, 08 May 2008
Hi Tony, thanks for addressing my question, I am glad I expressed my discomfort.
Tricky one if she asks you directly what your opinion of her is. Would that include an implicit invitation to lie in response? Is it easier to think on your feet when it arises or to formulate a response in advance?
Of course, there is always the fail safe "I'm really interested in why you are asking that question at this point." My clients sooo hate it when I do that. Or, "what is your fantasy about how I might feel about you?"
Now I am wondering who she might become to you if she asked that question.....
Posted by: Hullaballoo | Friday, 09 May 2008
Glad you liked the photograph April,
Go for it April.
Ask him outright. Don't mince words ask him straight -
"Do you like me?"
and then see what sot of an answer you get.
Yes your therapist does see people that bore him or that he does not like. Every therapist on the face of the planet does. Some admit to it and some don't. So find out which one he is.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 09 May 2008
Good point Hullaballoo,
Yes by her telling porky pies it gives me permission to do so back to her. It would be part of our unconscious communication I think.
Are yes! The trusty fail safe responses Hullaballooster! Aren't we glad we therapists have those to duck for cover with. And as you so rightly note, clients hate such responses.
Why would they dislike them?
I know what my answer will be to her if she asks me outright if I like her. At some point I will say "Not particularly". I have to because she asked straight and I will answer straight. If I don't then I will be disrespecting her and she knows the answer anyway.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 09 May 2008
I seem to get clients such as these ones Grafittti. The justice system turns them over regularly. I got one the other day that attempted to strangle his first counsellor. He ended up in mental hospital for a week. Why would I work with him knowing that? He wants to kill quite a few people it seems but somehow doesn't. These clients seem to test counsellors to see if they are capable of working with them. They gotta test them somehow for that capability otherwise there is less respect. The counsellor will not be seen as potent enough them. Good to hear that she is doing well after a few weeks.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 09 May 2008
I have pondered precisely what you are saying Kenoath,
If I be the 'good' therapist then maybe she would gain very little.
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Friday, 09 May 2008
Well yes. The way I see it Grafitti is that you "are" being a good therapist but yes, it may be that she might not trust you if you went about rescuing her or giving her suspiscions that she might be paying you to be nice and nurturing for her.
Geez, I am not too sure what a "good therapist" is in that sense Grafitti. it wasn't in my training manual! In the clients projective indentification process perhaps I understand what you mean. The antisocial client need to express what they really need and that is a difficult task for them.
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 09 May 2008
A 'good' therapist kenoath,
It is in the WPATA training manual, you can find it in the index.
According to the text books the relational that I and this woman have is very dysfunctional
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Friday, 09 May 2008
Hullabaloo and Graffiti,
One of the reasons that I wont ask her if she likes me is if I get one of the "fail safe" responses.
Then I know she would be a fake and I terminate the sessions.
Those responses are such obvious cop outs and so easy to see through. Thats why us clients hate them.
It is a different story if she answers the question then asks those others questions. But in copping out... just shows what a waste of money the therapeutic relationship is.
I like what your response would be Graffiti... "not particularly" ... not too brutal but honest.
Kahless.
Posted by: Kahless | Friday, 09 May 2008
Hi Kahless,
Good statement you make.
Remember therapists have their frailties as well. Some jump for the 'fail safe' responses because they don't want the client to feel bad and just don't have the fortitude at that time to give the 'hard' answer.
There is always something that a therapist does not like about a client, so i suppose it is a matter of degree.
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Friday, 09 May 2008
Well I don't know if I will be brave enough to ask him if he likes me next week, but you're right about there being the type of therapist that will admit they have patients they don't like and the kind that won't. I think I did ask the question early on in our relationship in a passive sort of way, such as "You must see people you don't like," but I remember getting a fail-safe response. Maybe now that we know each other better he will feel able to answer honestly without hurting my feelings, haha.
Posted by: April | Friday, 09 May 2008