« Human attachment and marriage | HomePage | Popov - Graffiti script. »
Sunday, 25 May 2008
Human attachment and marriage
In the previous post I mentioned that John Bowlby discovered this thing called human attachment. This begs the question - why is it there? Why does attachment exist in human relationships.
An attachment is a sense connection to another person. It is a merging of boundaries where one person’s identity and the other person’s identity are connected. The line or boundary between the two people is fused or unclear. When an attachment exists between two people they have a strong urge to seek each other out and to spend time with them. So why would this thing exist in the first place.
When one fall in love one looses a sense of boundary.
There are probably a number of answers to this question and I will look at it from an evolutionary perspective. Every society has the same problem. It has to create a structure by which a male and a female can get together and conceive a child. In my society this is most commonly done with either a marriage or a defacto relationship.
Every society then has another problem. It has to create a structure whereby that new born child can survive and grow into an adult so it can then also reproduce the species. In my society that is most commonly done by the nuclear family unit. A mother, a father and the children. Sometimes there may also be grandparents or others in the family unit but this is the most common structure in which a dependent child is raised. Obviously if a society can’t solve either of these problems then it is not going to be a society for much longer.
When a woman becomes pregnant the society and that woman have a problem. In about 7 months she and the child are going to need a fair bit of help for a number of years in order for the child to survive.
Remember we are talking evolution here. So like 500 years ago there was no single parents pension or health care systems and so forth. The problem is that the father of the child can simply walk away. If that happens then the likelihood of the child not surviving increases.
So what does evolution do? It creates this thing called attachment. What is one of the core features of human attachment? When a person forms an attachment to another, then it has a strong, indeed very strong urge to seek out and maintain a geographical proximity to that person. If the father of the child has an attachment to the mother then he has a strong urge to keep geographically near her. After the child is born if the father develops an attachment to the child then he has the same desire to keep geographically close to the child. If the father stays geographically close then the likelihood of the child surviving significantly increases. Of course after the birth the same applies for the mother.
So if the society can keep mother and father together then the child is far more likely to survive and thus the society survives. It is estimated that when a person reaches the age of 10 to 15 years then they are probably physically and psychologically capable of surviving by them self. If they are forced to look after self at age 14 then they might be quite neurotic in adulthood but they will be able to survive to reproduce the species.
In western society the divorce rate usually hovers around the 50% mark. Of the 50% who aren’t divorced probably half of them should be. But they stay together for financial or other reasons. Societies usually tell a man and a woman who marry that it is meant to be for life or the next 50 years. The problem is that half of them don’t and perhaps another 25% don’t want to be married but are for practical or moral reasons.
The explanation we are usually given for this is faulty child rearing practices, poor education on relationships and society makes it too easy to divorce and so forth.
There is another explanation that I propose in my serial monogamy model. I am somewhat reluctant to state this. Since I first presented it in August 2001 I have found that I need to have my battle fatigues on when I ever I publicly present it again. I have had conference a participant stand up, shout at me and walk out of the presentation on it. I have received hate mail related to my article on the serial monogamy model. There is a group of people who very much do not like the concept. And to KazzaB, if you are ever doing an assignment on human attachment it might be wise not to include this, as you might be given an “F”. This is certainly not mainstream thought on human attachment.
Earning a living
Perhaps an attachment between a male and female breeding couple is finite. After about 10 to 15 years it runs its course. From an evolutionary perspective it make sense for a couple to breed, raise the child together for 15 years and then breed again in a new couple.
In western society, for at least 50% of the population the attachment does precisely that. It ends. All I am doing here is providing an explanation for something that is happening right now. Just because it is unpalatable does not make it untrue, despite governments and particularly religions wanting human attachment in a marriage to not be seen as finite.
Original serial monogamy article:
http://www.ynot1.com.au/magazines/TAT%20serial%20monogamy%20[v6.0]%20(WP).pdf
Graffiti
12:40 Permalink | Comments (35) | Email this
Comments
"Just because it is unpalatable does not make it untrue..."
How correct that particular statement is! I am not surprised that you received hate mail. Many people get extremely jerked out of shape when confronted with a distasteful truth.
There may be something to the lifespan of relationships. I think there is another alternative idea to relationships in general simply having a 10-15 yr. lifespan and then they have run their course. I think all people change and grow. Couples can either do that seperately and only as individuals, or they can grow together. Western society does not support a lifestyle that gives people sufficient time and relief from stressors so that their relationships get the needed amount of time and attention. This makes it very easy for people to grow only separately and not to share that with the partner so they may grow together. So then they grow apart and seek out new relationships that are more agreeable and have more in common with the person they have become. Relationships are like living entities that need to be nourished. They fail when people, for whatever reason, will not or cannot feed them.
Another thing that creates serial monogamy, is people like me. I am on my third husband, fourth long-term partner. That is only because I was drawn by unconscious habit only to men that no one would really be able to spend a whole life with. They were just insufferable. The longest I could stand any of them was 6 years. I have been with my husband for 11 years because he is a kind and nice person quite different from the others. If people stop abusing their children, perhaps those children will sooner find partners that are more suitable and are people they want to share and grow with.
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 25 May 2008
Those are good comments Lynn.
I, like you, think relationships do change over time especially when you are talking in terms of decades. Maybe one of those changes is with a husband and wife who have had kids and been married 25 years. Maybe it is best for them to view their relationship as more of a friendship than a marriage.
For the first 10 - 15 years one can have a mating couple type of attachment, but after that it just goes away, but they can then of course become friends and I suppose that is what the 'successful' marriage may in fact do. Its just that we don't call them what they really are - friendships rather than marriages.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 25 May 2008
I think long and successful mating can be called both a friendship AND a marriage. I think there is still a marriage as long as both prefer the relationship over leaving the mate. It is still a marriage as they share children, pets, interests, investments, a home, and goals or some sort of plans for the remainder of life. I don't share all of those things with my friends.
I think part of this stage of a marriage not being considered a marriage, could be because people do not understand why their sexual relationship with the mate changes. Let's face it -- after a certain number of years, most people just have sex less frequently. This is because by a certain age, people realize that there is more to life, and to marriage, than just having sex all the time. I don't think people would find this strange or feel bad about it, if society did not sexualize everything in an effort to market and sell products. But I guess that is a whole other blog post!
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 25 May 2008
You are right Lynn that is another whole post.
The part that I like about renaming a marriage something else after 10 to 15 years is it gives a finality to that relationship. As you note in your comment above the quality of the marriage relationship changes over time. So lets give them two different names and two different start and finish points.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 25 May 2008
Maybe we could call the early marriage the Trial Run?
Posted by: Lynn | Sunday, 25 May 2008
Hi Tony,
I get the sense in what you are saying. I find myself agreeing with you.
Afterall, why should we be so much different from the rest of the animal kingdom?
I have been with Mrs K for 13 years. Our relationship has evolved. Neither of us will seek a different relationship (we laugh that that is way too much effort) but some would describe our relationship as more like deep friendship.
I find it odd that a participant at a conference stood up and shouted at you. Is this such an in-grained belief in society that we should partner for life?
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 25 May 2008
nothing like a bit of controversy Grafitti; well done!
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 25 May 2008
13 years Kahless is good going,
I am with you on our similarity to the rest of the animal kingdom and it never ceases to amaze me how many others think and believe that we are somehow different.
Ingrained belief in society you ask?
Just about every religion in the history of mankind has articulated with vigor that marriage is a life long commitment. The Pope does not even accept divorce and still says you are married to the other person even if you get a legal divorce.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 25 May 2008
Tony,
I thought I'd have a look at monogamy across different animals and found this. It seems the animal kingdom get up to all sorts of behaviour that I guess we thought was limited to humans...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behavior
Who'd of thought that female porcupines has been observed to use a stick as a vibrator and that penguins are into prostitution!
Anyhows, your comments made me more think of catholicism. One of the catholic priests I knew as a kid, it turned out he had a woman with whom he had a child. When this came to light he left the church and ended up marrying her. Yet I though the catholic church viewed priests and nuns as 'married' to God. (Also a nun from school ran off with a priest.) so it seems the pope allows them to divorce God and marry a woman or man.
The mormons allow polygamy as do muslims. Why is it that one woman can not have several men?
And I wont go on about ingrained beliefs in society!
Hope you had a good weekend.
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 25 May 2008
Powerful writing Tony, thanks for making me think.
Perhap we need a more open and flexible view of marriage. It seems the traditional one leads to a narrowing rather than a widening of perspectives.
The task of human breeding is both bonding and stressful. Add to that money worries, anxiety about work, environmental pollution, family illness and other stresses and it is a wonder so many people do stay married for as long as they do.
Posted by: Hullaballoo | Monday, 26 May 2008
I've already done my assignment on Attachment Tony so too late to include your ideas. LOL I agree with you though and with what Lynn has said. I think people grow and change over the years and if the marriage doesn't grow and change as well, then why stay together. I couldn't imagine sharing my life with someone just for the sake of saying I was in a relationship or married.
Have you ever heard the saying about people who have been married for a long time - say 30 yrs or more?
"You don't get that long for murder". LOL
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 26 May 2008
Kazza! *Giggles* One just might get more than that if they've been married for that long. After they murder their spouse, perhaps they'll start their second term in a different type of prison and not attached to anyone so much anymore?
Lynn,
"It is still a marriage as they share children, pets, interests, investments, a home, and goals or some sort of plans for the remainder of life. I don't share all of those things with my friends."
I do. There are times i share all that in the same house for lengthy periods of time with friends. One of the lovely ladies I know well, and I, have been planning to book ourselves into our local retirement village (like, next week or so!) and live it up till we don't wake up in the morning. We have some GREAT plans! I mean... we don't even have to cook if we don't want to! LOVE THE DREAM!
And, you also said...
"This is because by a certain age, people realize that there is more to life, and to marriage, than just having sex all the time."
Really? I find that as the years go by the sex just gets better. But i am 46 and to some that's just 'so old' but to others its so very young. I wonder why age is viewed so differently buy so many people.
Tony,
If i had to have more kids i'd go and live far far away from the human male species. NO WAY!!
We decided to have 2. I think we did that because i'm not a regular type person (women speak) and it was about 5 years after our second son and no period, so I thought, lets make this it for us. That's when he went and got the 'snip'.
I shudder when i think of grand children but they say it's different some how. It'll be fine of course, just place that baby in my arms and 'melt melt'. But i do not want any more children of my own! So when you say a thing like...
"After about 10 to 15 years it runs its course. From an evolutionary perspective it make sense for a couple to breed, raise the child together for 15 years and then breed again in a new couple."
Well, all i have to say about that is... run along and have fun breeding. But as for me... I'm finished now thanks.
roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 26 May 2008
On the radio today there was a sociologist talking about serial monogamy. She was referring to the way in which people dump thier partners. She had listner send in an e mail saying they shouldn't be using the word "dumped" and their talk of relationships was flippant.
This particular listener seemed to be angry. If one looks at the statistics around relationships ending Grafitti, I can understand there maybe at least 50% of ones audience in a workshop who is currently, recently, just about to, go though a dumping.
No wonder you got someone walking out in that lecture.
Then, on top of that as you mentioned there are the Catholics in this world. God forbid the guilt involved around having more than one partner in life. The sociologist said that there are on average three relationships per person, per life.
That puts me over the national average.
Kenoath
ps, did you pinch a picture from my blog this morning Grafitti?
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 26 May 2008
Hello Kenoath,
No I don't think I took a picture from your blog Kenoath?
Those soiciologists!
You can't trust them you know.
And then there are the catholics!!
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 26 May 2008
What mark did you get for your attachment assignment KazzaB?
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 26 May 2008
Glad you liked the post Hullaballoo,
Like you I think there needs to be a major rethink on marriage in western society at least. However there are some power vested interests in it so I don't think it is going to happen tomorrow.
Hope all is well in Scotland
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 26 May 2008
Apparently, statistically more men than women remarry. I wonder why??
Posted by: Madeleine | Monday, 26 May 2008
I passed! I passed assessment three! I've just been involved in making the impossible happen!! AND it did happen. I passed! Just like that! They gave me a mark that was over 50 and that's a pass! I know atleast half of everything i'm supposed to know...
Oh...
But i did pass... roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Ohh and by the way. Some one bidded and won something from me on ebay! Yaaaaayyyyyy!
Madeleine,
My question is - why would ya? To me - obviously looking in from the outside (being married forever and all) - why would you put your self through all of that again? I have to take my hat off to those who would attempt a long term relationship with another spouse/partner again but i just can't help it think the question... why?
It's just too much work, too much hurt, too much disappointment... honestly - why?
I hope that when or if i'm ever alone, that's the way it will stay for a long long loooonnnnng time.
roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Congratulations Roses.
Yeh!
Posted by: Kahless | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
I got a Distinction for my Attachment Essay Tony. Last week of semester this week. Just exams in a few weeks time and then a nice long break!!
Posted by: KazzaB | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Congratulations KazzaB ....
What are you doing in your break?
Posted by: Kahless | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
well done to Kazza and Roses
One would think after 23 years of marriage in a dependant style attachment that there would be problems when one person decides to get more independant. Why can't saying "its over" be straight forward enough? Can loss of ones attachment be lethal? The trouble is the loss is about so much more than that when families and lifestyles are involved.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Thanks Kahless and Kenoath, I'm not sure what I'm doing in the break Kahless. I've got a presentation essay I've got to get done for next semester, so that'll be part of it. Other than that I've really got to get in and do some pruning in my backyard and get my house in order. I've been letting things slide for a while. So just pottering around probably.
Congratulations Roses on passing assessment 3!!
Posted by: KazzaB | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Well done to you KazzaB. It sounds like you are doing well in your course and it will be great when you are qualified. Although for me uni was a fun and adventuresome time which was sad to end but also good to end.
Congrats
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Also lots of strokes to you roses for passing assessment 3. I smiled at your comment that you know at least half of what you are meant to know.
being a counsellor one hears of all different parenting styles that people have been through. I recall a client once saying to me that his father once said to him, "If you get 51 percent in an exam then you know you have done 1 percent too much work".
I wonder what sort of a message that gives to a child?
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Hi Roses,
Did Madeleine sell something on ebay?
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Ohh wow Kazza! Well done! Enjoy your break - you've obviously worked hard and earned it. Are you going to go on a holiday or something?
But Ken,
I guess after 27 years - though it's not all that long - the attachment is like a living thing. I have sons who are 27 and 25 - they live close by (actually one next door and the other one bought a house just up the street) and i still like having them around. Gosh - what it took to get them to the age their at. Its their responsibility to look after themselves now but i don't mind them depending on us for 'this and that'.
It's the same with an attachment. I wouldn't say good bye to my kids just because they didn't do or become what i wanted them too. We've grown this 'attachment' for over 30 years now, that's a lot of growing. Major investment. I'm 45 and our relationship spans 30 of those years (we met when i was 15).
Ohh, i see. It's too big... too frightening?
I know this, we grew up together, I can't imagine anything else. I don't mind being stuck here cause if not here then i'll still be stuck somewhere else. What if it's worse? I can't imagine it being better.
I don't know - can't know...
roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
I don't know if Madeleine did or not Tony, but I did! Well the lady bidded and won - the transaction hasn't taken place yet - but isn't that exciting!
Thank you for the strokes everyone. Life, though weird, is so fun! Enjoy your 'back yard blitz' Kazza.
I hope you're over the celebration head ache Kahless.
Ohh and by the way - I'm 46 now. I keep forgetting.
Cheers... roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Are you really 46 Roses,
or is that just your internet persona.
What did you sell, and for how much. Never done that myself - sell something on ebay
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Yeah - i'm 46! I turned 46 on the 22 May. Gosh - you really are soooo cheeky you know. I don't have a 'internet persona'. I'm just me Tony. Did try to be someone else but ended up just being me again. That's why i wonder when you say things like "just be yourself", i can't seem to be anything else.
They are jewellery items - on ebay that is. Well not really jewellery but like it.
I'm embarrassed to say - isn't that weird.
They really are lovely though and i sold 3 for $2. I used it as a learning thing - i learned how to do a sell page, and how to do an invoice (the invoice was just this morning) and now i don't know what to do so i'm just waiting for... something maybe?
You should try it Tony. Gosh it's fun - but be careful if you ever venture to bid. Actually i might send some to you - perhaps your sons may like them. Then i'll know how much it costs to send to Perth. That's a loooooong away away from here.
Anyway, it was and still is a lot of fun. Hope you get to have a go soon...
roses
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 27 May 2008
Happy birthday for last week Roses. It seems that you have gone from assertive-warrior power over the last year to a more cognitive - higher learning power now. I like seeing those kinds of transitions in my blog mates. Well done Roses.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Wednesday, 28 May 2008
Thank you Ken - i think...
Are you able to explain what you just said? Just the 'assertive-warrior power thing?
When was assertive-worrior power happening?
curious... roses
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 28 May 2008
In my mind Roses, the way I know you from blogging here I have semsed a transition in the way you might "fight" occasionally with the info that Tony posts, to something else. I am not saying that you fight with Tony, ( I am gonna use Tony now instead of Grafitti) or anyone else for that matter. It is just my sense about a transition you have made in yourself Roses from your comments here. Its all good isn't it?
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Wednesday, 28 May 2008
Yes Ken, its all good.
I remember saying that i'd stop being angry back a bit now. Its nice that you've noticed and mentioned that you've noticed, it means that i'm achieving one of my goals which must be - to be true to my word.
Ken, thank you for noticing. Lots wouldn't.
sincerely... roses
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 28 May 2008
The comments are closed.