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Saturday, 26 July 2008
MI in the relational
Gezunda talks about the MI as a Parent contract? I think I agree with some of that.
It is usually the therapist who suggests the idea of MI to the client in the first place and that is always a hazardous pursuit, as we know, in that it can become a Parent contract. It initial motivation is not coming from the client it is coming from an outside source.
Also as Gezunda states MI is a therapeutic technique and thus is useful but also limited in its impact on the client. So perhaps we should look at MI in the relational. Unfortunately, to my mind, it is a very difficult thing to define.
One hears people be referred to as ‘good motivators’. Napoleon was considered one of these. The night before battle he would go down and be amongst the troops and this would motivate them to fight like they had not fought before.
It would seem safe to say that there are inspirational and charismatic leaders who can motivate others to get them to do things they would not normally do, both good and bad things. Another example could be Jesus Christ.
On a less grand scale one also sees this in the training of psychotherapists. Of course if a therapist has this ‘motivational’ quality in them then that could be a most positive thing as they would kind of automatically doing MI all the time.
A young child's thinking is psychopathic
Sometimes you can pick it. What ever “it” is. The “X” factor that some therapists have. Defining what that actually is is not an easy pursuit. I sometimes know when I see it and I can say to the trainee something like:
“You have an internal strength that people (clients) are going to respond to”
or at other times I may say to “X” factor therapists
“You think like an insect”. I am not exactly sure what I mean by that
Perhaps the thinking is
You go where there is food and water and you avoid people who are going to kill you and you kill when you have to to survive. It is a very base, bottom line thinking. That ability of being able to see what is and not have it clouded with values, morality or how you think it should be or how you want it to be.
In one sense it is anti-social or criminal personality type of thinking. In my time in prison, as I have said before, I observed an honesty with prisoner relationships that you rarely see on the outside.
I see many of them as thinking like insects. When they were not trying to scam you or manipulate you then you would see this type of relating and thinking. They were good at quickly identifying what your base agenda was. What your primary motivations were and then relate openly respond to that either in the negative or the positive. They weren’t distracted with the words, their own morality and ‘shoulds’ like many others are.
Perhaps the good motivator is one who can read the situation as it is and get an understanding of a persons basic motives and what they will and will not be prepared to do. The insect is a psychopathic thinker so maybe good motivators are as well which is a bit dangerous really.
As to the internal strength that you can see in some people (therapists). Maybe an inner strength and belief. A bit self centred really. I believe I know what and how it is. Again a bit of an anti social personality trait.
I know how it is and what needs to be done, trust me.
Graffiti
19:00 Permalink | Comments (33) | Email this
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"That ability of being able to see what is and not have it clouded with values, morality or how you think it should be or how you want it to be." And that's the hard bit as a therapist, Graffiti. All people have their own values, judgements etc, and they are sometimes very hard to get past.
Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 26 July 2008
Not too sure what you are trying to say gezunda
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 26 July 2008
Just how difficult it is to be the "insect" as you describe it.
Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 26 July 2008
Yes gez,
It is indeed
Cheers
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 26 July 2008
That is refreshingly deep Tony. Perhaps the projective identification technique is the antisocial persons crowbar.
Glad the Eagles had a win.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 26 July 2008
I think Kenoath that the anti social character may use the technique of extractive identification as it involves stealing from the client
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 26 July 2008
Oh yes, extractive is what I meant, thanks Tony. Back to my relaxing
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 26 July 2008
yes time for me to relax as well Kenoath
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 26 July 2008
Yes the mighty Eagles did win, so I say
"Bring back Ben"
Who has been a person who has been motivating for you.
Cheers
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 27 July 2008
I think Ben has made it very hard for others to understand him now. I think Ben and Sisyphis (sp) have much in common.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 27 July 2008
i need some motivation too.i am answering an exam on sep 30th.
Phoebe
Posted by: phoebe | Sunday, 27 July 2008
Tell us about sisyphis Kenoath,
Graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Sunday, 27 July 2008
Hope you do well on your test Phoebe!
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 27 July 2008
I am wondering what the "trap" in your mouse trap picture has to say about relational styles of MI Tony. What is unclear about using MI in this way when it would seem the two approaches might work quite well together?
Here is a couple of points outlining MI principles
The web site can be found at
http://www.motivationalinterview.org/clinical/whatismi.html
# Readiness to change is not a client trait, but a fluctuating product of interpersonal interaction. The therapist is therefore highly attentive and responsive to the client's motivational signs. Resistance and "denial" are seen not as client traits, but as feedback regarding therapist behaviour. Client resistance is often a signal that the counsellor is assuming greater readiness to change than is the case, and it is a cue that the therapist needs to modify motivational strategies.
# The therapeutic relationship is more like a partnership or companionship than expert/recipient roles. The therapist respects the client's autonomy and freedom of choice (and consequences) regarding his or her own behaviour.
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 27 July 2008
Nah, look it up Tony
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 27 July 2008
Ohh gee, I hope i'm self centered and anti social enough to be a therapist! I might even be a really good one if i practise those traits really really hard.
Ohh... but i still want to come here and be antisocially social - self centeredly so.
I can't see the pictures. My puter is having a really bad hair day and, well, won't do the graphics. I'll have a look again tomorrow.
Be warm, be well, etc...
Posted by: roses | Sunday, 27 July 2008
You will make a good therapist Roses.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 27 July 2008
There is one person in my life that I can clearly identify as a highly motivational leader.
He was a boss of mine from around 4 years ago. I am not sure what the quality is that makes him so motivational, but he still works for the company but in London now and when he comes up to our offices you can see people flock around him.
He is tough when he needs to be and I would hate to be on the wrong side of him. Yet there were times that I would leave a meeting with him feeling like a million dollars and capable of ruling the world, so to speak.
I would follow him into battle. Not sure I would follow anyone else (except Mrs K of course but that is different.)
Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 27 July 2008
Thank you Ken for substantiating that i am good and properly equiped with self-centerness and and well endowed with antisocial traits - qualities that make a good therapist. You're a good'n *giggles*
ALSO, when i clicked on "Kenoath" at the bottom of your comment to see if you'd written a post or not - i was whisked away like Dorothy and Toto, into the IM site. I didn't read it all but i did put it into my favs. Thanks for that.
Kahless - I hope your home dries out soon. Thank goodness it's summer over there!
Tony, our holiday at Coffs harbour went... well it went not very well. We bought a holiday over the phone and when we got there it was a tad - broken? The motel gave us a night and we did stay there (it's a 12 hour drive). But while we were getting into our room the phone rang and hubby got a job interview in the Central Goldfields region. So the next day (saturday) we started off for home, stayed for an engagement party in Sydney then, came home on Sunday.
We've booked half of our accomodation down there (it's in between Ballerat and Bendigo - 2 hours north of Melbourne) gosh it's exciting! I hope that if he gets the job that we will move. I can study distance down there as anywhere i guess. Oh my goodness - instead of living between the mountains and the sea we'll be living in the arid dry of central Victoria. Roasting hot in summer and freezing cold in the summer.
I wonder what it would be like. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Happy week to you... roses
Posted by: roses | Monday, 28 July 2008
Ohh, that was supposed to be - roasting hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter.
I don't think that was a Frudien(sp?) slip though it could be that it's just a month to go till spring? I'm so enjoying this text book! So fun!
Posted by: roses | Monday, 28 July 2008
Hi Roses, I am not saying that therapists have those traits or that even you have those traits. However in becoming a good therapist one usually does the good personal work transcending and turning such traits into a wealth of understandings. So why does one become a therapist if they gotta go through all of that?
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 28 July 2008
Ken - maybe...
Because it's in us to work things through in that way anyway? 'Cause curiosity is our middle name even though we may not find it written in our birth certificates? Because i want to know or more than that - i wonder if it's possible for me to understand? AND if I do begin to understand anything, am I able to share with others making their journey easier till they become the explorer in their lives? And if knowledge/information is power then am i able to share knowledge/information with others who are finding their own empowerment?
Perhaps just because we want to and therefore do.
Posted by: roses | Monday, 28 July 2008
sounds like you have already started a journey in that regard Roses.
k
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 28 July 2008
Hi Tony,
How do I change what's in my countdown clock??? I started back at Uni today so my countdown has finished but I haven't got a clue how to change it. LOL
We had one unit today which is counselling the older person and I think it will be really good. Good lecturer who is also our tutor and who I think will keep it interesting.
So it is back into the fray!!
Kazza
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 28 July 2008
Ohh my goodness! Kazza!
Does that frighten you? I'm so afraid that i'll just say or do such stupid things. Do you feel confident in counselling someone?
Hang on.
I'm doing my first subject - perhaps by the time i actually have to do something with someone... well perhaps i'll have had a bit of a go of both sides of the desk.
But gosh! It's a tad frightening isn't it?
Happy studies - and fray out mighty woman!
Posted by: roses | Monday, 28 July 2008
I must say - ohh my goodness that's a cute picture of that baby in the pram. Hmm, i wonder what she's thinking. *Giggles*
Posted by: roses | Monday, 28 July 2008
What makes you think it's a she, Roses??
I bet he's looking at the world and wondering what all these dopey adults are up to hehehe
Posted by: gezunda | Monday, 28 July 2008
Kazza,
Delete the old one and replace with a new one.
Posted by: kahless | Monday, 28 July 2008
Hi !
I really enjoy reading all the comments here.
Tony ,some of my near and dear ones are Psychiatrists, hence for better or worse I have had the opportunity to meet many Psychiatrists and Psychotherapists.
One unfortunate thing that I have observed is they are very quick to judge or diagnose the other person.Even when they are doing nothing but gossip and it is a social situation.
If nothing else, lets atleast sneak in an axis II diagnosis!
Its really irritating and annoying......so you are refreshingly different.
Niether you seem to judge nor are you inattentive and self absorbed.That's really commendable.
Phoebe
Posted by: phoebe | Tuesday, 29 July 2008
We do role plays with our peers Rosie before we are let loose on the public. LOL I have to say I'm not really afraid to do counselling as much as I used to be. I find the whole process fascinating. It's good doing the role plays too because it has built my confidence up.
I know I will be nervous when I get my first 'real' client but I think the saying is 'do no harm' and as long as I can stick to that, it'll be fine.
Posted by: KazzaB | Tuesday, 29 July 2008
Hi Roses,
Not such a good holiday by the sounds of it.
My server has been down all day!!
F**K, F**K, F**K
I have had email withdrawls all day and it was bad man!!
I might start up a new group called EA
Emails annoymous.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 July 2008
Glad you got your clock going again KazzB mine has just over an hour to go until it runs out
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 July 2008
Hello Phoebe,
thank you for your kind comments. I have a similar experience when I am in the company of my fellow psychologists. Sometimes I am sure they could come up with a cake recipe that sounds something like.
Take 2 panic attacks
a pinch of dysthymia
Whisk 3 trichotillomanias
lightly grill an adjustment disorder
Mix all together and bake for 30 minutes in a hot oven.
Sometimes I wish they would just give it a rest!!
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 29 July 2008
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