I am what I try not to be : Tony White

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Friday, 15 August 2008

I am what I try not to be

I have written before about how we can begin to understand who we are by defining what we are not. As a society we can begin to get a sense of our own identity by seeing that we are not those who are in prisons and this could be one of the purposes that prisons serve for us.

This same process can be at play on an individual level, but sometimes it does not work I am afraid. Or more correctly some people people will use the mechanism of “I am not...” to try and be something else.

Perhaps the first psychotherapist many years ago was our friend William Shakespeare. He wrote that famous line said by the Queen in Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

At an individual level some times there is pathology in defining what we are not. One finds no better example than the US televangelist Jimmy Swaggert. He moralised vehemently and vigourously against sin and of course that included improper sexual behaviour. Thus in this way he and his followers were defining what they were not and they were doing it with great vigour. From a psychotherapist point of view that rings alarm bells. When ever someone protests a lot then that makes the psychotherapist suspicious about the person’s motives.

Indeed as this video shows our man Jimmy, behind closed doors was employing the services of female sex workers. He was doing the exact thing that he was sermonising against.

So in all his protestations he was not really trying to convince his congregation against sinful sex but he was actually trying to convince his own Child ego state.

He was aware at some level (often unconsciously) that he had Child urges to have sex not permitted by the church. His Parent ego state was repulsed by that and thus they are driven out of his awareness. But of course they don’t go away, in fact it just makes matters worse. So he endeavours to stop these desires in himself be protesting very loudly. He is trying to convince himself and thus he ends up preaching against the very thing he is doing himself.

So in saying, “I am not that” he is trying to create an identity of who he is by using the same process as was discussed before. The problem is, by just saying what he is saying he is not, cannot simply make that go away.

You cannot make the Child just go away

If he had gone to a psychotherapist and it was drawn out that he did want to have sinful sex then that would have defused the problem. If he had dealt with his own Parent belief system and openly acknowledged to himself that he did have sinful sexual urges then the problem is defused. He has to accept a part of self that his Parent found disgusting to and that was the problem.

The human personality is a balancing act

So if you find you are protesting against something with great vigour perhaps part of you wants to do it or be it. Think of someone who really pisses you off. What is it in them that you truly dislike and then own that part in yourself.

The moral of the story. The more you accept the disliked parts of self the less of a problem they will be, methinks!

Graffiti

19:55 Permalink | Comments (101) | Email this

Comments

Jeez that all most had me in a solopsismic spin Tony. I could say that I have explored my 'who I am not parts" through careers,relationships and psychotherapy. It would be easier to go down the shopping mall and try one on, just to see if it is not me. I love that film called All of Me, the characters really knew who they were not and acted that out.

good blog Tony

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 15 August 2008

All our lives we are taught that we are wrong to have feelings that "sinful" let a lone act out on those feelings. Yet if we didn't have certian standards of acceptable behaviour in our society it may be even a more chaotic place to live. So if I understand this correctly it is okay to have the feelings, just not always okay to act out on those feelings. The more we accept the feelings good or bad the easier it is to actually suppress acting on them when they are not acceptable?? Back to the treadmill for me!

Posted by: Gayla | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hello Kenoath,

I will have to see that movie!

That would be good to be able to go to the mall and see a shop called the 'I am not me " shop!!

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hello from the treadmill Gayla,

As I understand it, it is OK to have any thoughts and feelings no matter how sinful or illegal. To act on those is the definitive point and there is a very big difference between the two.

Perhaps we all have had thoughts that are illegal but most of us don't act on them

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Great blog!
It gave me a lot of food for thought.
I hope i can learn from this.

Posted by: Phoebe | Saturday, 16 August 2008

re: your earlier comment; I would be serving life imprisonment if i had acted out some of my (occasional) thoughts!!!

re: your post. Spookily I was have been having "issues" with someone lately. I have them off and on with her. highly probable she has some "issues" with me. Actually I know that. Whilst I agree with your post very much and think it is great; it isnt the dynamic of what is going on here for me. The things I have issue with arent true for me. i think it is more of a transference issue where this person actually reminds me of someone in my childhood who I have issues with. So that dynamic is being acted out instead.

Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I'm at a workshop this weekend on Drug and Alcohol counselling and I have a couple of people sitting behind me who I think most of us in the group want to slap or at least the row in front of them do. I'm trying to think what I see in them that I might want to be but really can't I'm afraid. One of them sat with their feet on the desk and they laughed, talked and made a pest of themselves through most of the lecture.

This was last night when the workshop started - it went from 4.30 to 8.30. And we have two more full days of it. It is also only a small room. The lecturer is lovely but not the sort who has much control over the group. What I see in the lecturer that I dislike in me perhaps is that part that won't keep control of the class and keep others from being disruptive. I'm not sure I'd be effective in doing that either.

Interesting post Tony.

Cheers..........KazzaB

Posted by: KazzaB | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hello Phoebe

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Ah yes kahless,
The old transference. The beast that causes so much trouble in relationships. When you look at her just think of mom and pop.

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

hello KazzaB

Write us a post about your weekend AOD workshop.

You can't see in you what is in those disruptive ones behind you?

That's the thing KazzaB, it has been sublimated by your Child ego state because your Parent finds it so repugnant.

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I don’t agree with you 100% Tony. As an example: I really, really dislike judgemental people. Overall I am not judgemental. I can be as judgemental as the next person, but over all it is not a characteristic of me. Nor is it disowned as part of me. I do own the judgemental part of me.

There are some beliefs and values we hold which are true for us and very important for us and we dislike people with those sorts of characteristics and it doesn’t necessarily mean that we are what we try not to be.

So for instance with Kazza and the noisy disruptive people behind her in the lecture. It is possible that she disowns the noisy disruptive part of her, but also it is irritating, rude, and means that the others in the lecture may not be getting what they need. So for her, both could be happening at the same time.

So although I agree with you to a point, there are occasions where what we dislike is not necessarily what we are,

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hi Gez,

I find you make some good points.

To me the key is in what Bill Shakespeare said "protest too much". The defining point being the "too much". Yes there are annoying people and maybe KazzaB found a few at her workshop. However the 'too much' is when the persons own Child has an investment in it. Of course it can go the other way as well, if one does not protest loudly enough due to some Child ego state reaction to the pesky people.

Sometimes people can say that they really detest people who are cruel and then from what I am saying they think that this means they are cruel as well. And indeed they are but that does not mean they will go out and be cruel to other people or animals and so forth. What they usually do is be cruel to self. So they are being cruel but its just directed at self and not others.

Graffiti

Posted by: Graffiti | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Tony,
Yesterday our both our sons and our eldest daughter in law and their friend (and drumer) were on their way down the coast to a gig in a town a couple of hours away from here.
They had an accident.
It's pretty yucky isn't it?
They're all physically well - perhaps a few sore muscles.

Emotions are huge aren't they?

We still have a family though.

I'm a little wrecked so i think a movie in bed is what's next for me.

This is the first time that i've teared at all. It's a bit big.

roses

Posted by: roses | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Sorry to hear about the close call for your loved ones Roses. Glad that they are ok.

ken

Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I agree with Gezunda. Even about the "too much" aspect sometimes. What you say here is just not always true, Tony. Proably not even usually true. Often a person protests loudly because they have been harmed by some action. Not everyone is a Jim Baker sort of character. I think attitudes like this one here can be damaging. As a therapist, I am sure you see many people whose problems stem from early abuses. There are MANY, MANY people who suffer due to that. Attitudes like this will then inhibit them from being able to protest lest they be accused. How very convenient for abusers and also for the status quo. Whether a person did or did not intend to do harm, that does not mean that the person who received it is the same should they protest. People are different and owe a different standard of care to their own feelings and to themselves than they do to those about whom they protest. I like you, Tony, but I'm not buying it.

I read about this attitude before on another website, and it was very, very clear to me and to many others, that the person who was spouting this nonsense would rather think badly of herself than to face the pain of what was done to her. She chose to ally herself with her parents by saying that whatever 'bad' thing you see in someone else is what is really in yourself and you are just projecting that on to them. That is such baloney. She was abused and she could not call her parents abusers because she would then be one herself! What a lot of ridiculous mental gymnastics to avoid the truth!! The whole world would be much better off if we could just get better at just getting real.

And this is not a personal slam. Like I said - I like you. I just strongly disagree.

Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I wonder if shorter comments are accepted here rather than longer ones?

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 16 August 2008

This is over 16 lines in comment

I can remember in a training group, my fellow group members thought it was great if I could express disgusting elements of myself more so in the group rather than repress them. It felt weird at first like I was doing something wrong but eventually got the hang of it and with great jocularity in the group too. I sensed after time, that there was less of a need to compensate for those once unexpressed parts of myself. I could then move on to something else in my self learning process.

Perhaps those people who become therapists are also attempting to nurture and heal aspects of themselves rather than being driven to heal others while ignoring their unexpressed parts.

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I divided the first part of my comment here Lynn into two parts because the blog didn't seem to accept the longer version. In doing so, I lost the most important part of what I was going to say.

Oh well they say things happen for a reason, fate and such is life and all of that.

k

Posted by: kenoath | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Maybe you used an "M" word Kenoath. Mine was quite long and got through no problem.

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

The 'M' word. That's funny. After I left a comment I was going to leave another with just the 'm' word. Just to see what would happen.

Posted by: Lynn | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hi Roses,
Good to hear that all your kin are OK

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Kenoath, post it at Gezunda's. We could then find the "M" word.

Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Hi Lynn,
Thank you for your strong diagreeance and I don't feel like you dislike me because of it. I see it as just you saying your bit and views on this topic.

Even if I disagree with it I will always want you to say it.

Cheers my friend

Graffiti

Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Yah, right, just use my blog !! I know your type Kahless hehehehe!! I wonder what he was going to say.

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

This post is strange to me, as with the comments. I've personally always been suspicious of people who protest too loudly (and i understand the 'over the top' protesting that is mentioned here in this post)

I guess this post is also relevant in my case because i'm a christian and have heard and seen what happens when the protestors are constantly caught with their pants down (still protesting and preaching i might add)

Not alot different to our governing persons who are the law or rule makers for our country caught in the act of breaking the laws that they made.

Also mums and dads, forgetting the house hold/family rules/codes/family culture, and being caught by the kids. Hmm, my hands up for this one. *yikes*

It's rediculous to me when we all have the same issues (human issues by the way) yet we feel the need to tell others to be more than we are willing to be. But for some reason i find myself pantless so many times.

It's just that it's so embarrassing when we're caught with our pants around our ankles isn't it? That's when we trip up one way or another and endup being exposed as a natural human being.

Ken,
Thank you for your thoughtfulness. I hope you can post more than 16 lines soon.

roses

Posted by: roses | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Thank you Tony. I'm going to sleep it off now. I feel as though i have a hangover. Just not the sick tummy bit.

Nite

Posted by: roses | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Yo, just got another gold - individual persuit.

yea...

we are catching australia.....

Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 16 August 2008

You're not competitive, are you Kahless LOL.

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Just got another gold - same number as Oz now!

Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 16 August 2008

We just got another one too !! Walking I think. What an odd sport.

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Whoops, twasn't the Aussies that got gold. Damn. Maybe I should pay a bit more attention, russian guy got gold, we got bronze.

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

Tomorrow we will overtake you - golds in cycling , sailing and rowing....

watch this space
hehehehe

Posted by: kahless | Saturday, 16 August 2008

No, you're not competitive hehehehe

Posted by: gezunda | Saturday, 16 August 2008

I am selectively competitive!

I am happy to cede my competitiveness where appropriate.

Actually, I hate losing.
:-)
I like winning.
So only invest when I have a fair chance of winning!

Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Hi Tony, Ken, and kahless,

You sound like a Man Utd fan in the post above Kahless.

I admire your brevity Ken. Short and sweet ay nicely does it.

Just gettin ready for Paula Radcliffe in the marathon. In another week I'll be able to get my sleep pattern back.

Nick

Posted by: Nick | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Nick,
I said to Mrs K this morning that I'll eat my hat if she wins.

(I think she is a "choker")

Good to speak to you again. You know every time I go to a footie match I still blow you a kiss when "victorious" is reached in the anthem....

Kahless.

Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 17 August 2008

I feel really mean for what i wrote above.

I hope she wins and fulfills her dreams.

Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Hi K,

Yes she's about to set off even though she's injured. Phew thank God for Paula, nobody loses with such style and beauty as her. If she was a swimmer she'd've won a bucket of golds by now.

Nick

x

Posted by: Nick | Sunday, 17 August 2008

I have ended up staying up to watch Paula, Nick!!

She's still there.

Sometimes I think fate is already written for some.

I wonder what the page will turn for her.
She will win or fail in dramatic style....
perhaps?

xx

Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 17 August 2008

I see that West Ham have had their first win for the season!

I am so over the Olympics in China.

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Oh well Nick,
Paula stuck it out for 2hrs 14m

I dont know why I stayed up???

Cycling starts at 9ish I think. Maybe we will over-take the aussies, gold tally today.

They I guess they have given up watching now all there medals are won!!!

[hi Ken :-) ]

Kahless.

Posted by: kahless | Sunday, 17 August 2008

How much did the hammers win by Kenoath

Graffiti

Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 17 August 2008

2-1 Tony, they played Wigan Athletic. I was suprised to see Everton beaten by Blackburn Rovers.

http://www.4thegame.com/matchcentre/premiership-latest-results.html

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Just thinking about your post, Tony. This "I am what I try not to be" could also go to positive qualities that we see in others and deny in ourselves, something like "I am what I see in others" or something like that.

Posted by: gezunda | Sunday, 17 August 2008

That s a good point Gez,
And one which I suppose many do not even think about. It would seem that the same denial of negative qualities in me could work for the positives as well.

So what is a positive that you truly admire in others?

Tony

Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 17 August 2008

Hi Kahless, Tony and all,

I admire your stamina in staying up to support Paula. I hope she hasn't ruined her chances for 2010 as her body seems to be breaking down more and more now.

Just watched Man Utd struggle against Newcastle. They don't seem to have found their zip yet but they fielded a weaker team. West Ham and Blackburn looked a bit lucky Ken. I thought Everton deserved a draw.

Alex needs to do some work at United if they're going to be successful this year especially as Chelsea look stronger.

Nick

Posted by: Nick | Monday, 18 August 2008

A positive quality that I really like in others is straightess (and no, Kahless, I don't mean heterosexuality). The person who doesn't play a lot of games, not really manipulative. That sort of person. Not the one who says "I tell it like it is" and end up being quite mean. Does that make any sense.

I also like intelligence and a good sense of humour.

What about you Tony? What positive quality do you like in people?

Posted by: gezunda | Monday, 18 August 2008

Hey Gezunda,
why do you think I would straightness any other way than being honest?

Posted by: kahless | Monday, 18 August 2008

From the movie "August Rush". This is where, in the end, he finds himself found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2juwBGJZW0&feature=related

How then, does one become what we want to be?

Some one made a youtube tribute to Hans Zimmer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8q2ZvPkD2k

Hans Zimmer. Perhaps brilliance isn't something done or who we are. Perhaps it's something else again...

Posted by: roses | Monday, 18 August 2008

Gez,
How can one live gameless unless they understand what the word 'game' (your idea of 'game') actually means?

Do people actually exist 'gameless' psychologically speaking?

Do you tell it like it is?

Or are you just making a point about being what you are trying not to be?

roses

Posted by: roses | Monday, 18 August 2008

Tony.

I am seething anger. I want to rip someones head off. I want to scream and destroy things.

I think i'll go and do some house work. Hope i don't kill the cat. I really like the cat.

roses

Posted by: roses | Monday, 18 August 2008

hello my post isn't getting through today and there is no M word.

perhaps I will send my comment to gezunda and she can post it?

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 18 August 2008

the 'M' back to front

egagtrom

Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 18 August 2008

Dog Chapman the Bounty Hunter maybe another example of someone who is trying to convince himself that he is not who he is. Although, he has initially proved that rehabilitation from his antisocial behaviours can be put to some good use, he does seem to be just continuing that part of his personality in another form. This time on the same side as the law.

http://kenoath.wordpress.com/

There are many self righteous religious people who follow the letter of the law to define themselves as "not someone" but who are they really? Without their values-belief system defining themself it would seem there would be some kind of identity crisis. It just goes to show how the Parent Ego state work in therapy is just as important as the Child part. I know that Eric Berne placed a great deal of emphasis on the Child - autonomy for achieving good psychological health.

Perhaps we could computerize egograms like sportsman monitor their pulse rate. A blue tooth device to record our different ego states during the day for analysis later on?

kenoath

Posted by Gezunda. Let's see if it goes through

Posted by: Madeleine | Monday, 18 August 2008

Ohh Yes Ken! And egogram! Can someone please invent one soon? Pretty please... with cherries on top?!?

I still don't understand the ego thing. No matter how much i read about it i can't tell what's happening when. So annoying!

By the way... i didn't kill the cat. But boy did i burn the mince! I added bbq sause. Hopefully they'll think that burned mince taste will be a smoky bbq flavour or something? Don't like my chances though.

Ken, that's a good post too. I visited you this morning but didn't leave a comment. Hope you're having a nice monday and i really hope that someone somewhere is patenting that egogram!

...maybe i'll add some cheese?

roses

Posted by: roses | Monday, 18 August 2008

Gez, for the record I was teasing you!!!!!

Roses, why were you angry earlier?

Posted by: kahless | Monday, 18 August 2008

Kennoath,
If a computer program was able to monitor our thoughts, how many of us would end up being committed lol!

Posted by: kahless | Monday, 18 August 2008

Jack Dusay's invented Egograms which are a device to 'measure' egostates Roses. The way to quantify egostates is a meta process involving questionaires or self reflection. If one understands the function of egostates and the context in which one uses different transactions its easy to come up with a bar graph. I was taught that reducing the critical parent is tough going and its much easier to increase the free child at the same time. Then its just a matter of practicing the different level of ego states as one goes.

If we can record pulse rates, km's traversed and other bodily functions surely there can be a device to record tone, stress and body movement in our transactions. But really, we are capable of doing this ourselves with a bit of training.

kenoath

Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 18 August 2008

Kahless, i don't know why i was so angry. I was feeling fine then i just wanted to explode. But then after i wrote it down i went away and pretty soon i felt much better.

I'm off to melbourne soon to watch a show. It's kind of exciting because my sisters, a neice and a friend are making a road trip of it. So fun!

I hope this week treats every one really kindly. Cheers...

Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 19 August 2008

Hi Nick,

Still enjoying watching the Olympics?

Gold medals galore!

Its great to see we are doing so well in the medals table...third only to China and USA:-)
Kahless

or alternate version....

Dear Tony, Ken, Gezunda, Roses and Kazza,
hahaha... GB has more golds than you!!!!
Catch us if you can!
:-)
kahless

Posted by: Kahless | Wednesday, 20 August 2008

Experimenting posting with no url....