Sunday, 28 September 2008

Self harm prejudice

There was an article in today’s Sunday Times newspaper by Dr Cindy Pan on self harming. It is just a short piece and quite a good statement of what the literature says in general and it does in particular highlight a prejudice that is commonly, if not very regularly found in the writings on self harm.

There are a number of reasons why people self harm and I have listed four below

1. Cutting self to release stress and tension
2. Cutting self to get a sense of feeling real
3. Cutting self to manipulate others
4. Cutting self to get attention

Self harm woman
Some self harm for these reasons




For some reason numbers 3 and 4 are seen in a most derogatory light by the general public and indeed in the technical literature as well. For instance Cindy Pan states, “While some have mistakenly viewed SIB (Self-injurious behaviour) as a “call for help” or a type of attention seeking behaviour, it is generally a highly secret activity, with self injurers usually going to extensive lengths to conceal and wounds”.

Why has she used the word ‘mistakenly’, what’s wrong with self harming to get attention?

Number 1 cuts self to release tension and number 4 cuts self to get attention. Both engage in self harm for a clear psychological gain, the first to release tension and the second to get attention. What’s the difference?

Kids at ATM

There is a belief out there, sometimes stated and sometimes not that when a person does attention seeking behaviour then they are considered pathetic, amoral, inferior or words to that effect. One is viewed in quite a poor light. This is for self harmers and otherwise.

Of course the support groups for self harmers have been quite vigourous in downplaying those who self harm to manipulate or seek attention. Understandably so, as they are wanting the public to view self harmers in a better light not a worse light. Some groups try to deny that there is any who self harm for attention seeking or grossly play down the numbers. Dr Cindy Pan seems to be doing the same. In some ways it has now become sort of politically incorrect to say that a person cuts self so as to get attention.

exposed self harmer
It took me five minutes to find this on the internet. There are thousands and thousands who are willing to put their self harming and their faces onto the internet for the whole world to see. Yes some do self harm very privately and there are others who are public about it. Obviously different motives are in play.



Whilst all this is good and well there is just one problem. There are people who do self harm to get attention and to manipulate others into certain actions. For instance the woman who cuts self because she knows that will get her placed in hospital for a couple of days. Or the person who self harms because they know that their suicidal statements will then be taken more seriously. What about these people? Not only do the general public look down on them but the self harm support groups deny that they even exist!

So these people:

3. Cutting self to manipulate others
4. Cutting self to get attention

have become the lepers of the leper colonies. They are at the bottom of the bottom of the pile.

Save me

One consequence of this shows up in Cindy Pan’s article. At the end she writes about what can be done to help self harmers. The focus is very much on those who self harm for reasons such as tension release or to get a sense of ‘realness’. There is little or none written on what you do for those who self harm to manipulate others. Why would one write about them when they have just stated that they kind of don’t really exist anyway.

In this way what she has written is representative of the clinical literature as well. There is very little written on what treatment one uses for those who self harm to manipulate others or to get attention. Again, how can there be as it is seen as politically incorrect to make such an assertion in the first place!

One treatment strategy that I have used with such people is working with their stroke filters in conjunction with an adaptation of the no-suicide contract which in essence is a no-self harm contract.

Graffiti

Leaving the nest

Well we are in spring again here. Last year at this time some doves set up home in a tree in my back yard. The remnants (Go and see Kenoath’s YouTube of Remnants as it is very good) of the nest are still there. I first noticed the mother dove just sitting in the nest for days and weeks. Every time I went to my car I would see it and was impressed with the devotion and indeed the motherly instinct. Finally one day the mother was not there and I saw two little doves sitting in the nest. Mother would come and go regularly and the doves got bigger and bigger.

After many more weeks they started to get quite big and the nest was starting to become very small! It was not long to go now. Then one day I came out and the nest was empty and there was one dead dove on the ground with blood where its head had hit the concrete. As I picked it up with the spade and placed it in the bin I thought, “that about sums it up”. Leaving the nest from mother and father is a hazardous task indeed. One dove made it and one did not.

Wind turbine
Its scary. Take the risk anyway!!!



Yes the old attachment and separation conundrum rears its head once again.

Guess what?
It’s a Monday holiday here in the state where I live.

Why are we having this holiday?
To celebrate the Queen’s birthday.

I find that embarrassing to say but it is true. We here in Australia still celebrate the day of the birth of the queen of England.

Jimi H
Jimi H, now there is a birthday we should have a national holiday for.




For F**ks sake! Its about time to leave the nest people! Time to separate and stand on our own two feet people! Whilst the connection to the British empire is only ceremonial now, it does represent an infantile connection on Australia’s behalf it seems safe to say. An unwillingness to leave the nest.
Why?
Because we may fall and hit our heads? If that happens then so be it.
What’s the alternative?
A half life staying in the nest?

Soccer in rain
Australia's mother country.



A half life and safe or a full life and risk?
Which one would you take?

Graffiti

Friday, 26 September 2008

Spam and games

Game theory

Question:
Can one be an alcoholic and not play the game of alcoholic?

Answer:
In psychological game theory there are a number of requirements before one can say that a game has been played. One is that it takes two (at least) to play. Indeed in the game of alcoholic there are 5 players. So if one is marooned on a desert island with unlimited booze one cannot play the game of alcoholic, because it takes at least two people to play a game. We have the perfect cure for alcoholism! Just place the alcoholic on a desert island and they can never again play the game of alcoholic.

Joe cocker

So games as used in Transactional Analysis are about discombobulated human communication. One cannot play a game by yourself. Yes one can certainly make self feel bad with negative thinking and so forth but that is not a game. Games are about human communication.

I have always been interested in the evolution of the WWW. I am glad that I was there at the beginning when in about the late 1980s there was an explosion of personal computer users around the world. It was very much like the wild west then. Very few ‘law men’ around and people had to by and large fend for themselves. It was great. In 20 years they will have the WWW much more regulated and the wild west days of the internet will be lost forever. By then the regulators will be looking after us and making sure we are all safe.

Hello, I can do that myself!!

Nanny state

In the early days days if you remember there was very little spam. I was rarely asked if I wanted my penis enlarged or if someone from the Congolese Republic with an unpronounceable name wanted to give me $20 million. Slowly but surely the spam came and there was a while there when you would open up your email and you would spend the first 15 minutes just deleting the spam. There would be 20 spam to 1 proper email. But then the filters got better and the spam significantly reduced.

The internet or the WWW of course is all about human communication and over time what happened to it? It got discombobulated with spam. It got bogged down in the irrelevant and confusing. It became ‘gamey’.

Us humans are so good at bringing spam into our discussions with others and thus we end up with psychological games. Human communication is most often quite simple.

Missus: Do you love me?

Hubby: Yes I love you my darling.

Simple? I think so and imagine if that happened 10 times a day to every one in the world how the world would be different to day.

Walking ladies

Whilst it is simple it is by no means easy. In fact it is very difficult and people will go to great lengths to avoid the simple transaction just described. Why? Because if you do do such a transaction then that means all the issues of trust, vulnerability, dependence, power, attachment, closeness, feelings and so on endlessly come up. So what happens?

Missus: Do you love me?

Hubby: What is love my darling?

SPAM!! The communication just got discombobulated. A game has just begun. I suppose this is the natural human condition and thus there will always be spam on the internet and spam between a husband and wife.

But it does have its appeal to just let go of it all and just be straight with others. Perhaps this is as good as it gets for us humans.

Bum sleeping

After discussing all the games people play, in the very last sentence in Eric Berne’s book, “Games people play” he states:

“This may mean that there is no hope for the human race, but there is hope for individual members of it”.

Whilst from my heart I clearly reject this, from my head I tend to agree with it.

Graffiti

Thursday, 25 September 2008

Atom smasher

I was listening to the radio today at about 5pm. At that time of day people are going home and they often have two DJ’s who in between songs will ad lib, make comment and do all round good repartee.

Today two were discussing this atom smasher machine that has fascinated the world recently. As we know it includes a circular tunnel that is deep underground and they shoot the atoms around this and smash them together. People have been worried about this and have thought that if they do smash atoms then that may precipitate a black hole that destroys the earth. The ‘end is nigh’ as they say but it has not happened yet.

Part of the tunnel apparently goes under France and one of these DJ’s commented that if they smashed atoms under the France bit and it caused a black hole that sucked in France would anyone really care!

Putting on make up

What is it about those French?

My mother reports attending a world psychology congress in the mid 1960s. At this congress famous French psychologist Jean Piaget was giving the opening address at the conference. This usually takes about 10 minutes and there is like 2000 participants sitting in the main auditorium. Piaget speaks in French and so many of the audience were wearing earphones that would be connected to translators who would then translate for them so they could understand his address.

Piaget gets up to give his address and he starts with, “Anyone of any intellect would obviously speak French”. He then pulled out the microphone connection to the translators so they could not translate to the audience and he proceeded to address the audience in French.

So I suppose it is c’est la vie, or in the words of the great man himself, Benny Cousin’s, “Such is life”

Ben cousins 2
The great man



Anyway back to the atom smasher. Isn’t that a great sounding name for a machine - an atom smasher!!

It sounds so...... well,..... potent!

If there was ever one thing an Aussie man would want in his back shed it would be an atom smasher. Wouldn’t that just be great to have one of those. The backyard shed is the last fortification of Aussie men’s maleness. What more could one want than on a lazy Saturday afternoon to say to the missus, “Hey darl, I’m just going down the shed to tinker with the atom smasher”.

Back shed 2
Now this is a good back shed.



An Aussie man’s back shed is full or all sorts of male type things. Saws, hammers, drills, cement, lathes, angle grinders and so forth. Things which make lots of noise and dust when you use them. Again reassuring us of our manliness. Then of course there is the topless girlie calendar hanging on the wall that is from 1989. But that doesn’t matter it still takes pride of place in the back shed.

But to have and atom smasher in the back shed, now that would really be something and make you the envy of all your peers. They just could not resist coming over and having a look and you just could not resist showing it off.

not good shed
This is a very bad back shed! Pleeeeze, flowers and a watering can!!! I think not!!



So you organise for some buddies to come over on a Friday night and you put on an 18 gallon keg of beer. Once everyone is boozed and things start to get a bit ugly you decide to crank up the atom smasher. So with all watching very closely you switch her on and let it rip.

You are either going to get the best light show ever or at worst get a black hole that swallows up all matter and time in the universe, But what a way to go and to have all matter and time end in my back shed would be perfection. Such is the Aussie male psyche.

Graffiti

Sunday, 21 September 2008

Temperament and personality

In the 1950s there was a famous study done called the New York longitudinal Study. The researchers followed 140 children from birth to adolescence. Over time they found that they could accurately identify 6 qualities of temperament and that these remained consistent over time as the child grew:

Rhythmicity - Regular or irregular
Approach/withdrawal - Positive or negative
Adaptability - Adaptive or non-adaptive
Intensity of reaction - Mild or intense
Quality of mood - Positive or negative
Activity level - Low or high

cute girl

Of course there is no good or bad temperament qualities to be born with. It depends on how you use your natural inborn temperament. Below is a list of the positives and negatives of each personality quality.

Rhythmicity
Regular (positives): Precise, punctual, organised, definite deliberate
Regular (negatives): Obsessional thinking, compulsive behaviours, nit picking, rigid, lacks feeling

Irregular (positives): Spontaneous, creative, free
Irregular (negatives): Impulsive, disorganised. poor problem solver, lacks direction

Approach/withdrawal
Approachable (positive): Friendly, popular, people person, outgoing, lives life. good PR person
Approachable (negative): Needs others around, “small does person”, manipulative, shallow

Withdrawal (positive): Likes own company, works alone, self motivated
Withdrawal (negative): Unfriendly, introverted, isolated

Adaptability
Adaptive (positive): Fits in, accepts authority, flexible, versatile
Adaptive (negative): Too conforming, lacks substance, does not initiate, lacks creativity

Non-adaptive (positive): Determined, a natural leader, innovative
Non-adaptive (negative): Inflexible, authority problems, argumentative

Intensity of reaction
Mild (positive): Unflappable, calm, handles stress and crises, laid back
Mild (negative): Shows little feeling, hard to get to know, shallow

Girl drinking soda

Intense (positive): Excitable, active, speaks up, know where you stand
Intense (negative): Moody, wild, “small dose person”, flies off the handle

Quality of mood
Positive mood (positive): Happy, optimistic, positive outlook, hopeful
Positive mood (negative): Happy racket, unrealistic, lacks personal insight

Negative mood (positive): Realistic, creative, causes change
Negative mood (negative): Pessimistic, angry, gloomy, melancholic, stormy

Activity level
Low activity (positive): Quiet, works well, patient, reads, neat & organised
Low activity (negative): Passive, unfit, lacks energy

High activity (positive): Active, sporty, fit, energetic
High activity (negative): ADD, cannot sit still, fidgets, untidy


Nature and nurture.
Each of us has a inborn temperament that we enter the world with. From day one onwards the home life or the environment modifies how we display that natural temperament in our personality.

Tug O War
The Tug-O-War between nature and nurture



Our primary attachment to mother and father combined with the natural temperament defines how our personality develops. Below is a list the 10 most common personality types. In each one, firstly is shown the decisions a young child can make in reaction to their attachment to mother and father and thus the influence of the environment on personality development. For instance in the paranoid individual the young child will make decisions like, don’t trust people and anger is a good way to cope in relationships.

However this is only half the story as there also needs to be a particular type of inborn temperament for the full development of the paranoid personality, those being intense reactions, negative mood and not adaptive qualities. The more there is the ‘right’ combination of childhood decision and temperament the more that particular type of personality will evolve.

This of course has particular importance for child rearing. If parents can identify the natural temperament qualities their child is born with then they can be particularly aware of what decisions the child may make and the consequences of that combination.

Report card

Paranoid
The world is hostile so don’t trust anyone and deal with people by being angry and attacking

Intense reactions, negative mood, not adaptive
Schizoid
The world is scary so withdraw from it (people) and don’t show any of your feelings

Withdrawal, under reactive, can be highly adaptable
Schizotypal
The world is scary so withdraw from it (people) and don’t think clearly by being a bit crazy

Same as schizoid and irregular rhythm
Antisocial
You can’t trust anyone & life’s unfair so take advantage of people and do what you like

Often high activity level (ADD), lack of adaptability, can be negative mood.

Tattoo woman 2
Borderline? Histrionic perhaps?



Borderline
Relationships & life are very unreliable so frantically do anything to keep people around

Irregular rhythm, intense reactions, negative mood, high activity level
Histrionic
I must be the centre of attention so I will be dramatic, flirtatious and highly emotional

Irregular rhythm, intense reactions, high activity level, approachable
Narcissistic
I have always been told that I am very important and the best so I will behave and feel like that

Approachable, intense reactions, lack of adaptability.
Avoidant
Life is scary and rejecting so I will withdraw and feel worthless

Withdrawal, intense reactions, can be highly adaptable, negative mood.
Dependent
I can’t cope with life and am worthless so I will cling to others and do what they tell me

Approachable, adaptive
Obsessive/compulsive
I have to feel in control of life and myself so I will be orderly and perfectionistic

High regular rhythm, negative mood, high activity level

Graffiti

Wednesday, 17 September 2008

Co creational drawing interpretation

I like the idea that Nick came up with:

“I also like the idea of a co-created drawing, with the therapist and client doing one together. It might even represent their work together.”


Whilst I don’t do co creational drawings with clients I do do co creational drawing interpretation. I have been given a name for it at last!. Historically there has been two main approaches to drawing (& dream) interpretation.

Bannanas

Firstly there is the Gestalt approach. Once the person had drawn their house, tree and person the therapist would say things like: “Be the tree and talk” or “If the house could speak what would it say”. What the therapist is doing is getting the client to becomes their own interpreter. Indeed for the therapist to interpret for the client would almost be considered an insult to the client in this approach.

The other approach is what was used by Freud in dream interpretation, free association and so forth. Here the therapist would say things like: “That tree is a symbol of a phallus and thus you are attempting to show your power and potency”.

Alf Garnet
Alf questioned his potency on many occasions.



I sort of do an in between approach with adults. (Same with my dream interpretation). I do the interpretation but then get the client feedback as I go along and modify the interpretations as a result. So it is more of a relational process than me telling the client what is and what is not. It’s a kind of co creational approach!. The client and I both co create the interpretation.

T: “The person in the drawing has no feet and that could mean a sense of insecurity, like you are about to fall over”.
Client: ”I do feel like that at times but then I have my baby to look after and I feel secure around her.”

Conclusion - not pervasive insecurity but situation specific insecurity. This we have a co created interpretation.

Graffiti

Sunday, 14 September 2008

HTP 3

It is strongly recommended that you do not read on here until you have read HTP 1 as it could make any future House Tree Person drawing test you do invalid.

House

Roses does present some unusual features for the house drawing. It is uncommon if not very uncommon to see a house drawn in mainly profile. The vast majority of drawers will draw a house where the front of the house is face onto the viewer. Whilst she has not drawn a complete profile (90 degrees) it is well over 45 degrees and that clearly is significant. Indeed the most front on wall of the house to the viewer is the side wall.

A complete profile is sometimes viewed as an avoidance reaction to intimate relationships so it is quite likely that there is some of this indicated in the drawing. However there is a large door and the windows are also large and these can indicate accessibility in the personality. However if you have a close look at the drawing there is quite heavy shading on the door and that can indicate a barrier of defensiveness, in this instance to human contact. Also there is no door knob on the door.

Hugged by words

All windows have shading on them. Again large windows indicate accessibility whilst shading represents an inaccessibility. In the PDI I would certainly ask if the windows can be opened or if they are indeed already open. Those windows on the side of the house look like they could be ones that cannot be opened. Obviously windows that can be opened indicate accessibility, particularly if they are already open.

The structure of the front wall of the house is most unusual. There is a door with a window on only one side. Thus it is quite asymmetrical. Most people will have either windows on both sides of the door or no windows at all. This could represent an imbalance or even some level of disorganisation in the personality. However there is a window on the side wall of the house and this could be seen as representing some symmetry as has just been described. It is possible that Roses has shifted the front wall window to the side wall. Again removing the amount of willingness to be accessible from the front but it is still included on the side wall. It is also of note that there is no door on the side wall.

Shy Woman

So again there is a contradiction of accessibility and inaccessibility shown by the drawer. Finally we have the large patio at the front of the house which gives an impression of welcome but there is also heavy shading particularly at the steps. These could be seen as barriers to close or emotional human contact. Welcome is indicted but also an avoidance of such a welcome.

In summary this picture gives a clear indication of quite strong ambivalence in the drawer. The desire and need to seek out human contact and relationships whilst at the same time having a need to avoid and shy away from such contact. This could lead to those with whom Roses has contact feeling confused at times. They will pick up both her need to seek out and the need to avoid human contact at the same time.

Graffiti

HTP 2

It is strongly recommended that you do not read on here until you have read HTP 1 as it could make any future House Tree Person drawing test you do invalid.

House

Here is Roses’ drawing of her house. For a better view click on the drawing and it will take you to my Flickr and then click on “All sizes” button and you will get a much better detailed view.

In drawing interpretation one looks for indicators, features or points in the drawing that show up something about the personality of the drawer. It can either be something that is drawn or it maybe omitted. There are three levels of implication of maladjustment in the drawer by the various features of the drawing.

Pathoformic - These features make the examiner suspect that the drawer has some aspect of deviancy as indicated by a point in the drawing. It is seen as a potential ‘danger spot’ in the personality

Pathological - this is considerably more than pathoformic and the sign gives a much stronger indication of maladjustment being present.

Pathognomonic - No this is not a mental illness that garden gnomes suffer. There are very, very few pathognomonic signs in the HTP drawing test. If there is one then that suggests serious maladjustment is already present and active.

Bono the boy wonder
Bono the boy wonder. Bob Geldorf's sidekick. He is a bit gnome like don't you think?




Roses’ was asked to draw a picture of a house. So she was given very little instruction. So when she draws it she is using the psychological mechanism of projection and this is the pivotal assumption of the HTP drawing test. As she drew her house she is in essence drawing a picture of her own personality. She is projecting her personality out onto the the page. It will show her personality strengths, weaknesses, psychic conflicts and so forth. She cannot, not project it out as she was given such minimal instruction. So if you look at the picture of her house you are seeing Roses’ personality.

Barbie face compare
Projection




Now comes the hard part. The examiner now has to ‘read’ her projections correctly. The main danger is that the examiner will start projecting himself onto Roses’ drawing. So he will start projecting his own personality onto the drawing and thus he will be interpreting his own personality via Roses’ drawing rather than Roses’ personality. This is really just another type of counter transference on the behalf of the examiner. So the good drawing interpreter will avoid doing such projections and then read the signs in Roses’ drawing correctly.

The first thing one does is look at where the picture is placed on the page. The circle in the picture below indicates the mid point of the page. If the person has placed all three drawings right in the mid point of the page then that indicates a sense of personality rigidity, careful control and insecurity.

Drawing mid point

If the picture is towards the top of the page that means the person is in the intellectual sphere and can derive satisfaction from living in fantasy. Daydreaming, intellectualisation and so forth. Thus it can also be a sign that the person is aloof and inaccessible as they intellectualise rather than have feeling contact in their relationships. It can also indicate reaching for the stars and striving hard to obtain the unattainable. Such as wanting a partner to be a certain way and trying to change him to be like that when it is never going to happen.

If it is down the bottom of the page that can give a sign that the person feels “less than”. Hence we have signs of depression, insecurity and inadequacy. If the drawing is to the right of the page that relates to the future and is the masculine side of the page and thus can highlight control of behaviour and so forth.

Roses’ house drawing is clearly and strongly to the left, very much so. Indeed the front of the house is also clearly facing to the left. She also does "paper chopping" to the left which means the edge of the paper chops off the 'full' drawing. Thus we have a sign that is probably more than pathoformic and is moving into the realm of the pathological level. This indicates that she tends to be past focused and may use the past to avoid the future. There may even be a fixation on the past and some fear of the future. The left side of the page is also the feminine side and thus she is probably well adjusted in her sex role as a female. The left can also be where there is emotional dominance. So emotions may at times dominate her personality at the expense of thinking and doing. And she will tend to be emotional in her close relationships maybe even using them to dominate in the relationship.

social isolation

It has now stopped raining now so I can get back to fixing the back fence again. Just one more thing. Roses has included a chimney with her house. Chimneys are a sign of emotional warmth in the house which is a positive. They also can be a phallic symbol and in this instance Roses has placed the chimney, partly hidden by the roof and is at the back corner of the house. So it is not a whooping great big one prominently drawn right at the front for all to see its splendour.

Graffiti

HTP 1

Roses drawing analysis
If you are reading this then I strongly recommend that you do not. If you read this then you are tarnished for life, you become used goods, you go beyond your use by date.

In this post I will begin an analysis of Roses personality using the very famous House-tree-person test created by John Buck. This will take some time and a few posts probably.

If you read my analysis of her then you can never again do the House-tree-person test. Because as you read my analysis you will understand about drawing analysis and thus that will effect your drawings in the future. Hence they become damaged goods and un-interpretable.

So grab your ciggies and a good cup of coffee and sit down at your table. Get three pieces of paper. On the first piece draw a house, on the second piece draw a tree and on the third piece draw a person. Once done then you can read the rest of my post and you will also have drawings which can be interpreted.

Tony Cathy Brockmans s 014
Me aged about 13 at riding school with the very lovely Cathy. She was my first ever proper girlfriend and I thought she was gorgeous. If you have a look at the much bigger photo on my Flickr I think she looks quite happy, don't you think? There is something about your first love that makes it different to all the subsequent ones. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing and it all seemed so strange to me.




What would normally happen is after the drawings have been done I would do a PDI. What is a PDI you ask? It is a post drawing interview. I would question Roses about her drawings. I am not doing this here as Roses lives far away on the wrong side of Australia. So my interpretations will be done on the drawings alone and thus limited in that way. Also I did not watch Roses do her drawings so I could not see in what order she drew the details of each picture. This can be of significance as it can indicate the repressions and sublimations in her personality.

In this I am going to be exposing your personality Roses for the world to see. Should the world happen by my blog that is. If at any point you are uncomfortable about this let me know and I will delete the fucking lot.

Will be back shortly. Just got too shoot out and fix my back fence. It is falling over.

Graffiti

Thursday, 11 September 2008

Big Bang

As I have said in a post a long time ago I love the concept of infinity. It shows up how limited we humans are in our thinking and how destructive the scientific model has been on it.

So to the big bang and the scientific experiments currently being done in Geneva. Physicists have a new billion dollar machine that is an atom smasher that will throw light onto how the universe was created.

Hello hello is anyone home!

Did I miss something!

I know they are not really physicists but fundamentalist christians in disguise.

Fat elvis
The big bang


What I am being told is that zillions of years ago there was nothing and then there was a big bang and then the universe was created. If their atom smasher does in fact prove this theory then they have just proven creationism.

How can you have a big bang if there is nothing there? That can only happen if someone or something put the things there so the big bang could occur in the first place.

ie a creator.

Other than that we have infinity. There is no beginning and there is no end. If the big bang did indeed occur then it did not create anything it merely changed what was already there.

Graffiti

All the posts