Friday, 31 October 2008
Make feels
There is a big ongoing and at times heated debate in psychotherapy circles about “make feels”. Can one person make another person feel angry for example.
“He made me feel so angry” or “What she said made me feel so sad” are comments that one not hears uncommonly.
My opinion is to take somewhat of a middle ground position or to kind of jump laterally.
I think that one person make another person have a feeling but what they actually feel is up to the them. So you can’t make another person feel angry or sad but you can make them have a feeling of some kind. What that feeling is, is their choice. It is usually their racket feeling that they most commonly have.
If you go up to someone and insult them to their face then the normally functioning person will have a feeling reaction to the insult. What that feeling reaction will be is up to them.
In the two pictures all the people watching on are seeing exactly the same thing but from their faces you can see they are feeling quite different emotions.
Then there is the thorny question of can you feel what another person is feeling?. Some argue that when one person is feeling sad then they can actually feel that other persons feeling. That one person is feeling another person’s feeling, not that you are being empathetic or modelling the feeling but that you are feeling their feeling with them. So you are not feeling your own sadness you are feeling their sadness with them.
Graffiti
14:23 Permalink | Comments (25) | Email this
Comments
I read this post and now I am pacing the smoking shelter angry. And it has nothing to do with you or what you wrote per se, but rather a topic that pushes my buttons.
Go to go now but I am laughing too at myself as maybe my reaction is a case in point. I will explain more later.
Posted by: kahless | Friday, 31 October 2008
What do you think about "make think" Grafitti? Can someone else make one think something, can we know what another person is thinking?
I think the "make feel" argument is similar to the free will and fate argument. In my view there are a combination of principles involved and a bit of each going on at the same time.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Friday, 31 October 2008
I really like that concept Tony; someone can make me have a feeling but I can choose what that feeling is. Although I am not sure that happens at a conscious level.
At one point as a kid we were made to keep 'feelings' diaries and then made to share them on a sunday. The usual outcome was being told "well you choose to feel like that. No-one else's actions had any bearing." Pretty hard for a kid to understand.
Posted by: Kahless | Saturday, 01 November 2008
So you are saying (not necessarily thinking) that when something/one stimulates a reaction from us, the action we tend to take could be the feeling/reaction that we usually have automatically? (racket - pre-chosen option)
I don't think you understand something. And i'm going to say it because i want to know if you see it too.
IF we choose stuff from day dot to now (e.g. I'm 46 now) those choices have by now become automated actions that are programmed to happen when feelings are stimulated. We don't have to think anymore. We no longer choose. It just happens - auto sky-pilot. *giggles*
So when you say that we choose the feeling that empathy creates in us - well i don't think that's the case anymore. It's an automatic reaction we've pre-programmed ourselves to have. Habit.
Could it be that we can now choose to re-learn reactions? Turn off the auto-pilot, and re-program (learn new habits) or even live/behave program free (actually able to choose - fly manually instead of auto) to external and internal stimulus?
Geez! Did anything i say then make any kind of sense??? It's difficult to say isn't it Tony?
We're all cloudy and nearly raining over here (a tad excited about the raining bit by the way) - i hope it's all nice over there. Our magpies have 3 little babies this year. They're too shy to come near just yet but won't be long. So cute!
How is your beautiful day?... roses
Posted by: roses | Saturday, 01 November 2008
"If you go up to someone and insult them to their face then the normally functioning person will have a feeling reaction to the insult. What that feeling reaction will be is up to them."
That's a cop out. It is license for people to behave with cruelty toward others and most people are too intimidated by the 'training' they have received from their parents and others to question it. I think it's baloney. Pure and simple.
Posted by: lynntaketwo | Saturday, 01 November 2008
Hmm, i found this...
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=658839
I don't understand the problem but that's probably because i don't understand the whole situation.
I don't know if when he gets sick of her as a wife, what he may do to change his marrital situations. That's the only thing that frightens me about it. Other wise they'll just grow up together won't they?
An obviously clueless... roses
Posted by: roses | Saturday, 01 November 2008
That is an interesting idea Kenoath about the make think, maybe we could also have the 'make behave'.
Also good point about the fate and free will dilemma and that may explain why people get hot under the collar about it, like they do about the IQ debate
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 01 November 2008
Yes Kahless,
you comment about the conscious level seems right to the point. That what a racket is about. It will be the person's first natural feeling reaction to some thing and they wont even have to think about making a decision on what to feel.
But the good part is that once one has made the unconscious, conscious then they can choose at least to some degree. I suppose feelings can be just as habitual as behaviour
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 01 November 2008
And hello to you Lynn,
expressing yourself in the delightful Lynn way! Maybe that is why I like you.
Speaking of baloney, in Australia we call it paloney. One thing I used to be called in primary school was Tony paloney, I assume if I had grown up in the USA I would have been called Tony baloney!
Cheers
Tony baloney
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 01 November 2008
Well Roses,
I just read your comment about the racket and the pre chosen option which is saying what I just said above to Kahless.
I agree with you and how it is pre chosen
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Saturday, 01 November 2008
"Make think"
Interesting...
I guess the difference is there a finite number (and not too many) feelings. As for thoughts....
infinite?
And most definately left of field for some. So "make think" would be pretty hard to achieve?
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Yes Kahless,
If you continue to tell someone (especially a child) that that are bad can you eventually make think that they are?
I am now going to the beach for my morning exercise!!
Back in 1 hour
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Wonderful!
I will picture you on the beach, doing tai chi excercises as the sun rises.
K.
ps. You can make think a child, but an adult is more resilient as they have their own thoughts already formed?
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 02 November 2008
There are plenty of persuasive people ready to influence the way people think. The government is a good example. Perhaps the persuasive types are more interested in "make believe" which is kind of the same thing. Cognitive therapy for those with contaminated thinking process's is a "make think" especially seeing that there may not be the right kind of thinking going on.
Gestalt therapy is a "make feel" in the treatment for a person who was "made to believe-think" that they are the not so good person the messages may have been.
Of course this all happens within contractual counselling methods for the persons welbeing. Some people go to counselling to feel more, to think more or to "do more".
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 02 November 2008
But Kahless, we all have a Child ego state that can be totally manipulated if we don't have our 'whole' awake, active no... what ever it is - alive/living perhaps?
PS, Tai Chi is so good for you. But the moves are a bit tricky.
Enjoy your Tai Chi tony!
Posted by: roses | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Perhaps I might have said to feel differently, think differently and do differently.
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Kahless,
Please excuse me... i don't mean to write as though i know it because i so totally and obviously don't. I need to hear your thoughts on it... so i'm asking really.
roses
Posted by: roses | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Roses,
I dont know it either, but what I would say is that you also have a parent and adult ego state.
I have a lovely child egostate that loves to come out and play. But I would be temptedto say that no-one makes me think anything that I dont choose to think.
My thoughts are my own.
But as a kid I was emminently influenceable.
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Reading your words Ken, got me to thinking. If you as an adult, you give another person 'guru' status or trust them / or i guess an 'ideal' therapy situation, then they can 'make believe'
So maybe you are right Roses.
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Tony,
So perhaps i do kind of understand what a 'racket' is. I wasn't sure. Thank you...
The ability to feel someone elses feelings is perhaps not as it seems. Perhaps it can be sensed like air is felt by our skin. We're so used to it (the air involving us) that we've forgotten that we feel the air or atmosphere around us.
Every person has their own culture and every culture has it's own atmosphere don't they?
Our skin alerts us to a storm or rain near by (I just love that feeling). The charge prior to a storm is just amazing! Gosh i love that.
So perhaps when we feel someone else's feelings it's what we sense in the atmosphere when ours and theirs merge?
Yeah - i have no clue but... what do you think?
Posted by: roses | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Roses, my skin doesnt feel any different before a storm!!!!
Though I will get a headache.
I whilstno-one makes me think, people can make me confused lol!
Posted by: Kahless | Sunday, 02 November 2008
No, I am afraid no tai chi for me. Not my thing although my brother is quite proficient apparently
I think you make a good point Roses. The unconscious awarenesses that we have like the air on our skin and indeed even the earths magnetic forces probably have an impact on us that we are not aware of.
Graffiti
Posted by: Tony | Sunday, 02 November 2008
I think teasing out other ways of thinking and the feelings underlaying racket feelings can be facilitated by a therpaist with potency, permissions and protection around the clients concerns. I think that the saying "the power is in the patient" is a very good one. I believe that Tony would agree with me here.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Yes kenoath,
I do concur.
Getting underneath the racket usually does make it harder to maintain the racket
graffiti
Posted by: Graffiti | Sunday, 02 November 2008
You get a head ache before a storm? Oh my goodness! I'd much prefer my senses being affected by stuff like that than something that hurts! Yikes! I'm so sorry that happens to you.
I don't get a head ache, but inside my nose feels different (a little while before it becomes rainy looking) and my eyes feel different. My ears behave like we're driving up a mountain (kind of) or a little bit like when your swimming to the bottom of a pool? but no where near as bad and often they don't pop too bad, probably because i'm popping them myself over a period of time. Maybe the day before or so but it's only a little bit and it doesn't hurt.
A storm is very busy. Like the air is city traffic and you walk through all the activity. Have you ever rubbed a pen on some material for a while and then put it close to your hair? That's what it feels like on your skin before a storm. During the storm and after, it's different somehow... like a relief or something.
And i reckon the reason why everything looks so clear and fresh directly after a storm, is because we got so used to looking through the atmosphere mayhem (before the lightening strikes), after everything calms down, the charge has been spent and every thing is relaxed but with an after glow sort of thing.
OMG!! The most wonderful thing!
But i'm really sorry you get headaches. I don't know why that would be.
roses
Posted by: roses | Sunday, 02 November 2008
Post a comment