Sunday, 15 March 2009
Relational group catharsis
I had a bit of a catharsis today at the all day workshop. Or more correctly it was sort of a re-catharsis. In the afternoon we ran a relational type of group therapy process. In these groups no usual type of therapy is done in the sense of there being clients and two therapists running a group by doing therapy on the clients.
It is by and large a leaderless group and people work with the others or relate their relational experiences to each other. Now let me tell you, it is quite a challenge to be the leader in a leaderless group. None the less I think my co-therapist and I achieved it to at least a satisfactory degree.

Do all groups have a leader?
The good part about being a leader in a leaderless group is you get to be like the clients at least to some extent. My co-leader reported having a emotional reaction about hearing of the death of someone whom she had known. At the lunch break I had actually informed her of the death of this person who we had both met on a few occasions. He was a psychotherapist of some note.
She reported to the therapy how he had been a very nice man and she had developed a good affection for him and thus was sad at hearing of his death. I resonated to this as my experience of him was quite different as I know he had been quite unkind to some others I had known. So I did not like him much at all.

This left me with a juxtaposition. I felt I wanted to state my feelings about him to the other group members but I did not want to adversely effect her emotional experience and reporting. So doing the relational thing I related my juxtaposition and stated what I just reported here. After subsequent statements by her and other group members I then related an experience in my earlier life.
I had a very good friend of many years whose father died recently and I attended the funeral. At the funeral people got up and talked about him and stated what a kind and good man he was. Well he was neither. He was a very emotionally abusive man who has damaged all four of his children significantly. At the funeral I felt like someone needed to get up and tell the truth but then as I watched everyone and I had a catharsis - “No it is not necessary to tell the truth about this man who died!”. My good friend and his family don’t need to hear or tell the truth as he is now dead and they just need to get the memory of him in a good place in their minds. At this realisation I felt a great relief.

The same happened today in the relational group. I felt the relief and release as it dawned on me that the truth does not need to be told. This catharsis is good stuff.
Graffiti
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Comments
This post is so relative to what I'm going through right now Tony. I'm in the process of some blog posts about my father, and how my aunt is challenging some things I knew about him for my entire life. He died 11 years ago, and these things don't matter to me, but she is pushing her stories on me like it's the most important thing in the world to her that I believe her. I haven't gotten to that part of the story on my blog yet, but it's coming.
I was upset at first by her stories, but then I realized that it DOESN'T MATTER! I'm just afraid of damaging my relationship with my aunt.
Posted by: Harriet | Sunday, 15 March 2009
I cant write much as I still have loads to do for work tomorrow. I just took a quick break - read this post - and what jumped in my mind I wanted to share.
I agree, the truth doesnt need to be told at times.
My thinking to add is also the truth is also relative. In that your truth and someone else's truth may be very different, and neither of you liars.
Posted by: Kahless | Monday, 16 March 2009
Hi Tony,
I thought this was a really powerful post, maybe it's related to the emphasis that the relational approach gives to the therapist's subjectivity?
Best wishes,
Nick
Posted by: Nick | Monday, 16 March 2009
As annoying as this post is to me Tony, your point is very tangible. Some things leave such a dreadful taste in the mouth don't they?
I don't see a problem in allowing people to believe their thoughts on people, places and/or things during a time of grieving. After all, like Kahless said - there are so many different perspectives on most things.
Tony i just deleted quite a bit of writing. I'm going to leave this comment right here.
Today is Monday and it's going to be a good day! Yay!
Posted by: roses | Monday, 16 March 2009
Yes Nick there certainly was plenty of subjectivity being put out into the intersubjective space by the various group members.
There were two women in the group who reported what I have heard others report in Relational groups that I have run. Basically they are saying that it is frightening and exciting to be afforded the opportunity to discover and disclose their Child ego state.
These people tend to be quite defended people and thus I can understand their comment and would see the relational approach as being most useful for this individual.
It seems also necessary to acknowledge that as with all psychotherapies one size does not fit all. If I had used a relational approach with the men I counselled in prison, I would have been told in no uncertain terms, that I was some kind of faggot and they would have got up walked out and I would never have seen them again.
The relational group was powerful for me Nick
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
I like starting my week talking with an annoyed Roses (and I am not being sarcastic here).
Go grrrrllll!
I concluded the same Roses that in such circumstances the truth is a poor relative to people gaining some peace with a deceased
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
Working on the weekend Kahless!!
Someone in the group said the same as you Kahless that the truth is relative and the truth for one is different for another
Have a good day
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
Hi Harriet,
I will go and see what you are writing on your blog.
It seems very important for your aunt to tell her story but as you say that could cause damage in the way you see her. I hope she eases up soon
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
Perhaps in feeling or recognising ones own views as a part from verbalising them in the group process helps in some way Tony?
I like the way you seem to be exploring some dimensions of your life. Perhaps I will come next time?
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 16 March 2009
Be good to see you next time Kenoath if you can make it.
The group process went very well.
I am always surprised in such relational groups how people don't do any proper work but end up with therapeutic value. Perhaps it shows that in all relationships there can be some therapeutic gain achieved
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
Just say Tony, that you were my supervisor. How often would i come to see you?
And...
... if my values interfered in the counselling process of client and counsellor (me) - would i see you often enough to cover it with you? How does it work?
I guess i'll probably learn about that as we go along but i was just wondering.
Anyway, i hope you have a nice night and really nice dreams that you get to remember. I think that would be nice. Well, i imagine it would be nice. Nitey nite...
Posted by: roses | Monday, 16 March 2009
people get supervision in varying amounts Roses.
My psychologists registrants get 2 hours per week.
other counsellors get once a fortnight or perhaps once a month including both individual and group supervision
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 16 March 2009
How on earth do you find time to do anything else! Holy Smokes Tony!!
During supervision, you and your... umm, supervisee's talk about work stuff (debrief?) and personal things? I mean, 2 hours a week that's equivalent to... 12-13 holes of golf. That's a long time! And quite a distance walked by the way - unless we hired a cart.
I'm glad that its that often. It makes me feel safe or something. I envy your supervisees - they're doing their career and as tough as some careers can be (i guess) if we've never had one (a career that is) its difficult to not envy someone who has.
I better get studying or i'll never get there! Happy Tuesday...
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
Two hours is quite a long time Roses,
And it is done in one 2 hour session not 2 one hour sessions.
Work stuff or personal stuff in supervision Roses?
You ask a very vexed question that therapists have been debating since time began.
Can or should a supervisor also do personal therapy with a supervisee?. Some say yes and some say no.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
About the 'vexed' question... very diplomatic answer Mr Graffiti Sir. So i guess it depends on who my supervisor will be.
Be well...
Posted by: roses | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
I dont believe many supervisors would attempt such a thing. Mostly supervisors would do that privately and then maintain their role as a transference figure and transitional parent role model in the group - to other psychotherapy trainees/supervisees.
It would seem a littly topsy turvy and novel. It may also help break down the barriers held for Supervisor and supervisees in a genuine way and go a long way to show that those in charge are human with feelings. Obviously there is difference between the supervisor and supervisee and when that role starts again the supervisee also experiences the push and pull of that demarcation. That is where things can be problematic.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
I think I agree with you kenoath.
As a supervisor I have at times done small amounts of therapy with a supervisee but it is not common.
I have suggested that the supervisee gets a therapist to do more serious work and sometimes they will choose me to be that therapist and I will generally agree to that
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
It does indeed depend on who your supervisor will be Roses,
If your supervisor says you have to have them as a therapist then that is not a good thing. I think supervisors should not make such conditions on supervisees.
To my mind any person must always have completely free choice as to who they will have as their therapist
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
I am not sure whether you agree with me or not Tony.
It is good to be chosen Tony. It seems that supervisees sense trust with you.
k
Posted by: kenoath | Tuesday, 17 March 2009
Hi Tony,
i agree with your learned wisdom of one size not fitting all, Tony. I appreciate what you mean about the prison population having also encountered them from time to time. I guess some of the gentler folk amongst them might respond to the relational approach, but the more macho element might not appreciate it, especially in the beginning. Maybe it's a case of working in the fluffy and spiky dialect Tony, as I've often heard it referred to in the field. I guess we can also use the fluffy/spiky framework with psychotherapists, altho' i guess the best ones can use elements of both, as you suggest in your one size not fitting all position.
Your fluffy friend,
Nick
Posted by: Nick | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Hi Graffiti,
Just been reading through the comments. Near the top, you said in an earlier comment
"Basically they are saying that it is frightening and exciting to be afforded the opportunity to discover and disclose their Child ego state. "
What do you mean by discover and disclose?
Cheers
Kahless
Posted by: Kahless | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Tony,
You have changed.
I just noticed but i think it has been a progressive thing and i hadn't noticed it before.
Perhaps its me that's changed.
You've become less far away or something.
You don't send cold pieces of paper with an answer on it any more. Your posts don't seem to be from a brain in a jar so much,but now they're spoken from a person who thinks and feels.
Not that it was ever any different i suppose... perhaps i'm learning the language? Or perhaps you're thinking differently? Or perhaps i just need to get to and study.
I've read your post several times (as usual) and this is a personal conversation with us... all of you, all of me, all of us.
Have you noticed it? Its so lovely...
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
I noticed too, Roses.
Posted by: Kahless | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Oh and cos I have had a couple of swifties, I will also say I have found it scarey!
Not horribly. Just I put people in certain, well boxes, and when they change I question why.
Please dont take that the wrong way, btw. I dont mean it like that.
Its just I like to have predicability I think!!!!!!
Oh, I should just bloody well shut up and go to bed. Big day tomorrow.
****kahless sneaks off....****
Posted by: Kahless | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Hi Nick,
I think you make a very good statement about psychotherapy. And I did generalize about prison populations.
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Hi Kahless,
Discover and disclose does sound a bit like 'stand and deliver' does it not?
It means to discover that small, vulnerable child inside and slowly bring him/her out and let him/her speak and say what he/her feels and thinks.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
I hadn't been aware of any change Roses and it has not been any conscious decision made about such a thing. I am glad that you find it that way and perhaps we have both co-created this new reality between us (and kahless).
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Kahless it is good to get your comments when you are on the 'sauce'.
As I said to Roses, lets agree that we have co-created this new contact between us.
Predictable is good Kahless but it can also get a bit dull.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Yes, kahless is all work and no play at the mo
(though work is good at the mo as I am doing well and getting good strokes for it which I love!)
A couple of swifties lets the ole child out methinks.
And you are right; predictible is dull. But it is also safe! Secure. Doesnt let you down!
Posted by: Kahless | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
Yes, Kahless.
That's why i like numbers too. In binary code they don't ever really change that much - 1 is 1 and 0 is 0 and never the twain shall meet (it would seem) - it's just the patterns that may occasionally be altered.
But we're not numbers. I'm quite pleased about that.
Sleep well and i hope that your tomorrow is a good day regardless of how it looks and feels...
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
We just had a baby? The three of us?
Interesting...
Posted by: roses | Wednesday, 18 March 2009
No Roses, no babies.
My first assignment at university was to prove that
a+0=0+a.
WTF!!!
It just is.
I nearly quit there and then.
Posted by: Kahless | Thursday, 19 March 2009
*Giggles* But you didn't quit... I think that makes you a professor Kahless.
No babies? Aww...
Posted by: roses | Thursday, 19 March 2009
No, Roses, I didnt quit and I got my degree.
Professor, lol!
No!
and no babies. Except of the furry kind.
Posted by: Kahless | Thursday, 19 March 2009
Gots ta lub the furry kind!
Posted by: roses | Thursday, 19 March 2009
But you told them...
"So doing the relational thing I related my juxtaposition and stated what I just reported here."
So, what was it that you didn't tell them? Or did you just explain about the earlier catharsis?
Also
So that's how it happens? A cartharsis is when you realise something you hadn't realised before? Something new has popped into your head - it was probably always there but that particular time, it became an epiphany of sorts?
So that would be your little professor working hand in hand with your child? (Aww... actually that sounds so cute!)
Posted by: roses | Friday, 20 March 2009
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