Monday, 23 March 2009
Self discovery
Self discovery and the complaining client
It does seem a bit of an odd situation between the therapist and client as was commented on in the last post. Here we have two people who get together and usually they have the same goal, for the client to think, feel and behave in a way that is more healthy for the client. To achieve that often that involves catharsis and epiphanies. That is for the client to gain some insight into self.
There will be times when a client will be discussing something and seems to be floundering. To an outside observer (in this case a therapist) the “answer” or understanding of the difficult situation appears quite obvious. The client seems to be going around in circles and outside observer can see that.
I can see something you can't
For instance the wife who is complaining about her recalcitrant husband. She reports how he again seems to be acting like a lazy child and not doing things around the house. What she does not see is how parental she is with him which of course plays into the game of schlemiel and schlimazel. She is actively encouraging him to be ‘childish’ by certain behaviours of her own and yet this is out of her consciousness.
So what does the therapist do? The hope is for the wife to have an epiphany as she discusses her relationship with her husband. For her to realise that she is in fact contributing to the difficulty. For her to have a self discovery as her unconscious becomes conscious and she realises her part in the game.
The key here is SELF discovery. So the therapist cannot make the discovery for her. He cannot tell her what her role in the game is. If he does that he does extractive identification and steals away any self discovery she might have ever had about it.
So she sits there going around in circles and the therapist does not give the ‘answer’. The client knows that the therapist knows the answer and is not saying anything and thus feels frustrated. The therapist knows that the client knows that he knows and is not saying anything and may also feel frustrated.
Ahhh, isn’t the therapy relationship lovely? But it has to be like this really. One of the most common ‘failings’ of the beginning therapist is they say too much. They feel like they have to start ‘doing’ some therapy and so they jump in say stuff.
Now I would be regarded as an actively involved therapist. I am not the kind to continually sit back looking empathetic, and making sympathetic noises from time to time. I would be regarded as an interactive therapist but still there has to self discovery for one to get the good epiphanies and thus growth.
At times clients will say to me that I never give them any answers. That they pay to see them and I don’t answer anything to which I may say something like, “Don’t I?” Which pisses them off even more.
Then there is the client who complains that I ask all the personal questions about them and I never answer any myself. To which I reply for them to ask me a personal question which they do. I start to answer it and after about 30 seconds the client interrupts and starts talking about them self again and never again complains about me asking all the questions.
Graffiti
03:33 Permalink | Comments (18) | Email this
Comments
"That they pay to see them and I don’t answer anything to which I may say something like, “Don’t I?” Which pisses them off even more."
lmfao!!!!
I think that would pee me off ;-)
Funny, I never ever asked anything personal of a therapist. Always assumed it was out of bounds and not the done thing to do. That I would put them on the spot and they wouldnt want to answer.
In fact I never asked for anything.
Saying that I never missed it if the therapist revealed something about themselves. The guy I saw revealed a few things about himself, which quite frankly I didnt need to know. He told me once about how he had been bullied as a kid. And also about how his parents would do things for him without him wanting them to - controlling him.
I didnt want to know cos I guess it made me aware of what pushed his buttons. And when I was pissed with him, I guess I pushed those buttons quite effectively.
Posted by: Kahless | Monday, 23 March 2009
Hi Kahless,
I don't know what Imfao means?
Well I hope you do start asking for what you want. Going through life getting what you want sounds far nicer to me and you certainly deserve such things.
Those who ask me to talk about myself really don't want to know either and that is why they interrupt quickly start talking about self again. Its just away of confronting the client's question.
Well maybe that's not completely true. Some client's do want to know stuff about the therapist, but perhaps when it is in a session that they are paying for then it is taking up their time.
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
When I first started with my client a couple of weeks ago, as a beginning therapist I did want to jump in and "do" therapy - like be seen to be doing something and have all the answers. Now I've gone back to the style I had developed with my counselling skills unit last year and that's more to sit back and use reflective listening. It feels a lot better and I'm happy with the way my style is developing. I have a very talkative client and he has a lot of insight but I suppose the test for me will be when I get a less talkative client.
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 23 March 2009
This was a post full of giggles and a few laugh-out-louds...
"The client seems to be going around in circles and outside observer can see that." - Giggle - this post has many parenting things in it.
"The client knows that the therapist knows the answer and is not saying anything and thus feels frustrated. The therapist knows that the client knows that he knows and is not saying anything and may also feel frustrated." - Now this one was fully funny!
"Ahhh, isn’t the therapy relationship lovely?" - funny as! This was a laugh-out-loud moment.
"At times clients will say to me that I never give them any answers. That they pay to see them and I don’t answer anything to which I may say something like, “Don’t I?” Which pisses them off even more." - giggled at this. You tease!
"I start to answer it and after about 30 seconds the client interrupts and starts talking about them self again and never again complains about me asking all the questions." - just clever really. Did giggle when you said this. Great post Tony!
I think i'm the kind of person who has to think about something a lot. It would take me ages to have "catharsis and epiphanies". Even if someone told me it would simply be information until it/something hit home and became a revelation of self.
We were doing our telly-tute last Thursday and there came a moment where i knew the answer and said it with such confidence! Then our (very clever) lecturer asked "why?". I couldn't, for the life of me answer. I asked him at the end why i couldn't verbalize the 'why' even though i knew it. He simply advised me to... "practice".
Posted by: roses | Monday, 23 March 2009
lmfao = laughing my fucking ass off
Posted by: Kahless | Monday, 23 March 2009
Sounds like good stuff KazzaB,
to sit back a bit and let the therapy process role and then intervene when necessary.
Sometimes very talkative clients are harder to deal with than the quieter clients
I look forward to hearing more about your experiences as a counsellor
tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
Is there a limit to how long you'll let someone run around in circles in their own head before you'll step in and at least drop a few extra hints?
Just curious, not complaining about my own therapy, my T is WONDERFUL. (positive transference? or just respect for someone who knows what she's doing vs. a bunch of schmucks I've seen in the past that obviously didn't).
oh yeah, I'm a fabulous speller. Always have been. Definitely nature and not nurture. Unfortunately, my daughter can't spell at all...
-else
Posted by: else | Monday, 23 March 2009
Hi Roses,
Glad to see that you have started this Monday morning with a smile on your face and see some good out there.
It sounds like your last tele-tute had an epiphany for you
cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
Debateable question else,
how long before you intervene?
in that different therapists would debate the differing points of view. Some would never intervene and see any intervention as almost an insult and assault on the client.
Others will intervene to varying degrees. Some therapists see them selves a doing 'psychoeducation' and they have no problem at all 'educating' the client and thus impart information regularly to the client. they would intervene quickly in such circumstances
Cheers
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
Roses, I find that I process a lot of stuff outside of my therapy sessions, rather than in them. In the moment, I will just store away something and it is afterwards I start thinking about it. That can be good or bad sometimes - good because it gives me time to mull over something and bad because I won't have someone to "bounce" things off when I start thinking of them sometimes. Maybe my goal will be to think more in the moment.
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 23 March 2009
I would wonder whether the client was open to knowing more about the game? Script analysis, Racket behaviour and some scenarios on the board with transactions whilst maintaining the relational somehow. The other factor with some clients who are stubborn or quite stuck is that after two years waiting for them to achieve self discovery they decide to end therapy citing that therapy was ineffectual.
Sometimes stubborn rackets are very helpful to people - they can survive that way. But its sad they only get a certain amount of closeness in relationships. Clint Eastwood in his old movies has a stubborn racket . At least he survived the unforgiving desert the injustices caused by others. He plods though the desert - stubborn to his unforgiving past.
But Clint does find a way to move on - to find justice and retribution. Usually there are many bullets flying around and bodies piling up. In the end Clint is able to express his anger and retribution which seems much better than staying stubborn. Well, at least until his next movie.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 23 March 2009
Kazza, it sounds to me you're on track with lots of things going on in you and outside of you. What i happen to be buzzing about right now is that you've a client! Yay! Oh my goodness... i'm so pleased for you.
Yes. I see you as very brave and only hope that i may have any where near your courage when or if my time ever comes! So great!
Posted by: roses | Monday, 23 March 2009
You'll get there too Roses. I've learnt a lot in the few weeks I've been doing placement and taken on my first client. And I think that's the important part of anything - the willingness to learn and from what I hear from you, you have that as well. I don't think we ever stop learning. That's what I love about counselling and my first client - the willingness to change something and openess to learning new things.
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 23 March 2009
I like your comment Kenoath.
A stubborn racket sounds like a good term and I think Clint would certainly fall into the category as you describe it. And his face has that kind of racketty look about it as well.
I could not stay stuck for ever/ years. If I was trying to change something and it was just not changing then eventually I would stop trying to change it and accept me as me
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
A belated Happy Birthday KazzaB for Saturday.
kenoath
Posted by: kenoath | Monday, 23 March 2009
Thankyou Kenoath. I had a lovely day and it seems to be extending to this week, which is nice.
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 23 March 2009
Happy birthday KazzaB. Good to hear that the week is going well
Tony
Posted by: Tony | Monday, 23 March 2009
Thankyou Tony. The week has started off nice!!
Posted by: KazzaB | Monday, 23 March 2009
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